The IRC log of the meeting:

20:02 <@ElvenProgrammer> someone here?
20:02 <+Usiu> yes
20:02 <@ElvenProgrammer> lo Usiu
20:03 <+Usiu> lo
20:03 <+Rotonen> i'm here too
20:05 <@ElvenProgrammer> =)
20:05 <+Rotonen> Hammerbear: the experimental mouse movement takes the clicks through gui objects too :)
20:06 <+Usiu> Rotonen, right that should be fixed..
20:06 <+Usiu> Hammerbear, and moving to location selected on the map should be also implemented. :D
20:08 <+Rotonen> every time i go online i get positive feedback from the people online
20:08 <+Rotonen> which is kinda nice :)
20:10 <+Usiu> Someone should make bigger map..
20:10 <@ElvenProgrammer> Rotonen: everyone like tmw
20:10 <+Rotonen> chetic has already made one
20:10 <@ElvenProgrammer> Usiu: new maps should come soon
20:10 <+Rotonen> for some bizarre reason people seem to be fond of our project :)
20:11 <+Usiu> Rotonen, bizarre ?
20:11 <+Usiu> Rotonen, I can make huge list why..
20:11 <+Usiu> :D
20:11 <+Rotonen> well people are claiming to be addicted :)
20:12 <+Rotonen> but at this point that goes well beyond my understanding :)
20:12 <@ElvenProgrammer> why?
20:14 <+Rotonen> well we're not much of a game yet? =]
20:15 <+Rotonen> it's not a bad thing that people already like it
20:15 <+Rotonen> but i'm just afraid of the potential hype and false expectations that might pop up on the long run
20:17 <@ElvenProgrammer> well its not a problem if some people dont like the game i think
20:18 <+Rotonen> that's not what i mean
20:18 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: you there?
20:18 <+Rotonen> i mean that it's not good if people get exited too early on :)
20:18 <@ElvenProgrammer> oh sure
20:18 <+Usiu> ElvenProgrammer, my character automaticaly use food while sitting ??
20:20 <@ElvenProgrammer> nah its not possible
20:20 <+Rotonen> it's possible that the client is misunderstanding something
20:21 <+Rotonen> hmm how about we make it a habit that as many devs as possible get online before our irc meeting? :)
20:22 <@ElvenProgrammer> the devs should always be online to test the game ;)
20:22 <@ElvenProgrammer> upagiro
20:22 <+Rotonen> hmm do you have logs of the server ?
20:23 <+Rotonen> how many people have been online and when etc ?
20:23 <@ElvenProgrammer> not me maybe michy, but i dont know how eathena logs works
20:23 <+Rotonen> ok
20:44 <@Hammerbear> I'm here.
20:45 <@Hammerbear> Yeah i need to fix the issue with clicking through the GUI.
20:45 <@ElvenProgrammer> yup
20:45 <@Hammerbear> I'll do that this weekend, cause it's kinda annoying that the player start walking all the time, heh.
20:45 <+Rotonen> there was some other issue i wanted to tell you but forgot it
20:45 <+Rotonen> something very minor :)
20:45 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: i think we should talk a bit about server development and control
20:47 <@Hammerbear> Ok.
20:47 <@Hammerbear> Rotonen: If something like that comes up, please query to me immediately.
20:47 <+Rotonen> it wasn't that major :)
20:47 <@Hammerbear> Rotonen: At least don't start telling me you forgot about something, cause now I'm worrying about what it was. :)
20:47 <+Rotonen> and it'll pop up sooner or later
20:47 <@Hammerbear> Ok.
20:47 <+Rotonen> it was probably the awful textbox wrapping
20:47 <+Rotonen> it's ugly at the moment :)
20:48 <@Hammerbear> Oh yeah I mean yeah like yeah.
20:48 <+Rotonen> :)
20:48 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: i think we should find some developers to really start thinking on server development
20:48 <+Rotonen> the players on the server are forming conspiracy theories about why they cannot go to the tower :D
20:49 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Did you see the basic server components I posted?
20:49 <@Hammerbear> Maybe read what i wrote about them?
20:49 <@Hammerbear> Rotonen: Haha.
20:50 <+Rotonen> hmm
20:50 <+Rotonen> some are supposing that it's a hidden bar that you can enter if you have enough monster points and pay 40k, some think it's just closed because there is asbestos in the attic :)
20:50 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: sure
20:50 <+Rotonen> i'm having a good time online :)
20:51 <@ElvenProgrammer> anyway i dont think ill join server development team
20:51 <@Hammerbear> I'd like to.
20:52 <@ElvenProgrammer> sincerely adapting tmw to work with eathena is going to be every day more difficult
20:52 <@ElvenProgrammer> id like to accelerate server development
20:52 <@Hammerbear> Woah, 8 people online now.
20:53 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Yeah I got rid of a few problems now, but getting rid of eAthena is the big plan.
20:53 <@ElvenProgrammer> having our own server will ease a lot the equipment management
20:53 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: I'm going through the protocol eAthena uses now, and probably first will be modifying things client side about how it handles it.
20:54 <@Hammerbear> That way I'll learn move about how it works and how it ties into the client.
20:54 <@Hammerbear> Which I think is important before I can modify it.
20:54 <@Hammerbear> I mean modify as in to modify so that it'll support our own server.
20:54 <@ElvenProgrammer> moving the client is not the matter, i think its more important a good server design and starting implementation
20:55 <@Hammerbear> Oh sure, well things would kinda go in parallel.
20:55 <@Hammerbear> The basic server components picture and description is the first step I did towards trying to figure out server internal architecture.
20:55 <@ElvenProgrammer> if you'd like to work on the server maybe its better if you admin that project while ill keep the client
20:56 <@Hammerbear> Next step would be to more concretely figure out which classes will exist and how they work together.
20:56 <@Hammerbear> Well sure I would admin the client, though I'm not sure what kind of authority you attach to the admin status. :)
20:57 <@ElvenProgrammer> just meaning you should be the coordinator
20:57 <@Hammerbear> Ok, that's fine. The main authority I've had and that I can't loose, is the authority about what I write.
20:57 <@ElvenProgrammer> ./me confused
20:57 <@Hammerbear> Hmm, it's an obvious thing.
20:58 <@Hammerbear> I decide what I write.
20:58 <@Hammerbear> Anyway, hmm. I have been deciding for other people what they worked on.
20:58 <@Hammerbear> But that's because they asked me what to work on, mainly.
20:58 <@ElvenProgrammer> and that's good i think
20:58 <@Hammerbear> Anyway, it worries me that some people think they have nothing to do.
20:59 <@Hammerbear> At least I heard somebody mention that.
20:59 <@Hammerbear> While my head is far from empty about things to do.
20:59 <@Hammerbear> So maybe I am having some problems communicating things to people.
20:59 <+Rotonen> we should perhaps more actively use and buff the flyspray ?
20:59 <@ElvenProgrammer> the same here, lot of ideas, not enough time
21:00 <+Rotonen> so it could be a realiable source for information to devs
21:00 <@Hammerbear> Yeah I will try to be more concious about putting stuff on Flyspray.
21:00 <@Hammerbear> That was people can see the need for something, and inform wether they could work on it.
21:00 <@Hammerbear> That way&
21:00 <+Rotonen> and i'd like to have a good guideline about bugreporting because i've been reluctant about posting things there so far because i've not know the policies that are applied to such matters
21:02 <@Hammerbear> Yeah we could put up some guidelines, though they'd be like 1. check if already reported 2. create flyspray bug report 3. attach backtrace
21:03 <+Rotonen> :)
21:03 <+Rotonen> logically thinking the description with the backtrace is sufficient
21:03 <@Hammerbear> But somebody got really messed up fonts in his backtrace.
21:03 <@Hammerbear> I guess it'd be better to attach the backtrace.
21:04 <@Hammerbear> Playing the Win32 0.0.10 on my dads PC now.
21:04 <+Rotonen> after writing a really long line:
21:04 <+Rotonen> Program received signal SIGPIPE, Broken pipe.
21:04 <+Rotonen> [Switching to Thread -1214936736 (LWP 13988)]
21:04 <+Rotonen> 0xffffe410 in ?? ()
21:04 <+Rotonen> (gdb) backtrace
21:05 <+Rotonen> #0  0xffffe410 in ?? ()
21:05 <+Rotonen> #1  0xbfffe638 in ?? ()
21:05 <+Rotonen> #2  0x08144088 in ?? ()
21:05 <+Rotonen> #3  0xbfffe4e0 in ?? ()
21:05 <+Rotonen> #4  0xb7ecea78 in send () from /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0
21:05 <+Rotonen> #5  0x08088493 in flush () at net/network.cpp:148
21:05 <+Rotonen> #6  0x0809705f in game () at game.cpp:119
21:05 <+Rotonen> #7  0x08099a36 in main (argc=1, argv=0xffffffe0) at main.cpp:372
21:05 <@Hammerbear> Well yeah there's a limit to line length and I doubt it's checked.
21:05 <+Rotonen> :)
21:05 <@Hammerbear> Possibly it even makes the server crash.
21:05 <+Rotonen> :)))
21:05 <+Rotonen> excellent design :]
21:06 <+Rotonen> but i wonder if the message was ever sent though
21:06 <@Hammerbear> Hard to tell.
21:06 <+Rotonen> well the server is still up at least
21:06 <@Hammerbear> I'll check it when I'm home, shouldn't be so hard to reproduce.
21:06 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: do you know someone who will cooperate with you in server development?
21:07 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Nobody reliable I think, can't really tell.
21:07 -!- Usiu [~Usiu@ursus.spray.net.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:07 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Happy was at least interested, but haven't seen him here for while.
21:07 <@Hammerbear> And Shura used to be interested, but got busy with real life.
21:08 <@ElvenProgrammer> i think someone like zenogais was also interested in it
21:08 <@Hammerbear> I don't know for sure about other people, I could imagine Kyokai would want to work on parts.
21:08 <@Hammerbear> Yeah maybe too.
21:08 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: what's the address to check gmail?
21:09 <@Hammerbear> http://gmail.google.com/gmail
21:09 <+Rotonen> i'm intersted, but my programming skills are below the required level :)
21:12 -!- Mra [~none@pD95187D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #manaworld-dev
21:15 <@Hammerbear> So let's see, what else to discuss.
21:15 <@Hammerbear> We have had quite a hot week, really.
21:15 <@Hammerbear> Mostly about that combat issue.
21:15 <@Hammerbear> But also about for example the actions menu.
21:16 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: I think you saw this? http://themanaworld.sourceforge.net/archive/bjorn/magicmenu.png
21:16 <@Hammerbear> We were discussing how to use it here: http://themanaworld.sourceforge.net/archive/kyokai/ringmenutwoversions.jpg
21:17 <@Hammerbear> The menu is supposed to be neat way to select your action or magic spell.
21:17 -!- mode/#manaworld-dev [+v Mra] by ElvenProgrammer
21:17 <@Hammerbear> Not the fastest way, but you would be able to select everything this way.
21:17 <+Rotonen> the one on the floor is better
21:17 <@Hammerbear> And place things under shortcuts.
21:17 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: but this will be handled by keyboard i think
21:17 <@Hammerbear> Rotonen: Yeah well I prefer the one on the screen.
21:17 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Both keyboard and mouse I think.
21:18 <@ElvenProgrammer> Rotonen: yeah better on the floor
21:18 <@Hammerbear> It suits both keyboard and mouse, when on the screen.
21:18 <@Hammerbear> I think on the floor is weird for mouse, also gets messy with busy area.
21:18 <+Mra> thanks Elven
21:18 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: with mouse? it will be harder with the floor ring i think
21:18 <@Hammerbear> Plus it's not what I had in mind when I came up with this menu. :)
21:18 <@ElvenProgrammer> Mra: its not auto, ill add it when i have time
21:18 <+Mra> np
21:19 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Yeah, like I said.
21:19 <+Mra> i think we should just implement the left and the right one and make it an client option, they are both neat ;)
21:19 <@Hammerbear> Besides, he drew the floor thing as an oval, but I think it'll be hard to do a thing like that graphically, at least with SDL.
21:20 <@ElvenProgrammer> Mra: we should start make some decisions having 2 implementations of everything its not that good
21:20 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: yeah probably, moreover the perspective its not so defined
21:20 <+Mra> ah right ;)
21:20 <+Rotonen> we basically have the dilemma of practicality vs. being cool here at our hands regarding that menu thingie
21:21 <+Mra> but anyways, we need both mouse and keyboard support, in both versions...keyboard for the gamers - mouse for the 'it's my first mmorpg guys'
21:21 <+Mra> hm
21:21 <+Rotonen> Mra: i don't think that's quite true.. :)
21:22 <@Hammerbear> Mra: Me neither, but I've discussed this too much already. :P
21:22 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear and me were discussing a bit about keyboard vs mouse today
21:22 <@Hammerbear> Yeah.
21:22 <@ElvenProgrammer> we still need to decide about it
21:22 <+Mra> ;)
21:22  * Mra votes for keyboard...mouse input is just too slow
21:23 <+Rotonen> :P
21:23 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: anyway it will be a bit hard to use the ring menu with mouse, I think we will need masks to check which part of the ring you're clicking
21:23 <+Mra> but i guess as usual you don't  think that ^^
21:23 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: That's just a bit of math.
21:23 <@Hammerbear> Nothing hard, especially not when it's just a segmented circle.
21:24 <@ElvenProgrammer> ok
21:24 <+Rotonen> ElvenProgrammer: moving via mouse but everything else via keyboard? (ie. the character would always run towards the cursor without clicking when in "movement mode") ? =]
21:24 <@Hammerbear> All you need to know is angle and distance in relation to circle center.
21:24 <@ElvenProgrammer> i think someone should host the server during development
21:24 <@Hammerbear> Sorry I will have to go now.
21:24 <@Hammerbear> Bus coming in a moment.
21:24 <@ElvenProgrammer> k
21:24 <@Hammerbear> Well I can host the server.
21:25 <+Mra> bye Hammerbear...
21:25 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: we need to talk mopre
21:25 <+Rotonen> i'm willing to host a server if a 512 upstream is enough for the testing purposes (i cannot guarantee you 24/7 uptime or bandwidth allocation, but should be enough for testing purposes)
21:25 <@Hammerbear> ~70 kb/sec up, over 300 kb/sec down, should be enough I think, hope latency is ok.
21:25 <+Mra> Rotonen: everything i missed in RO was moving by keyboard :D
21:25 <@Hammerbear> We'll have to discuss combat later, but really, I've already decided about that.
21:26 <+Mra> have you decided about the direct vs. indirect cause yet?
21:26 <@Hammerbear> Not much for me to discuss but implementation details.
21:26 <+Mra> ah
21:26 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: i mean we should talk more when you come back
21:26 <@Hammerbear> Is ok.
21:26 <@Hammerbear> Bye!
21:27 <+Rotonen> ElvenProgrammer: btw i'm not 100% sure about your opinion towards the fighting system, so what do you think about it ?
21:27 <+Rotonen> Hammerbear: see you
21:27 <+Mra> so i guess indirect kinda won? well then, what did Kyokai say? just wondering because i havent yet checked the forums and was on cebit all day long ;)
21:27 <@ElvenProgrammer> Rotonen: whats wrong with it?
21:28 <+Rotonen> ElvenProgrammer: i'm just asking about your opinion, how do you think it should be handled
21:28 <@ElvenProgrammer> i like the keyboard more, but probably mouse control will fit better
21:29 <+Rotonen> that's not a definitive answer :)
21:29 <@ElvenProgrammer> in fact we dont have a definite answer ;)
21:29 <@ElvenProgrammer> i have to think more about it
21:29 <+Rotonen> thought so :)
21:29 <@ElvenProgrammer> and discuss with Hammerbear before expressing my opinion
21:30 <+Rotonen> so you said you're doing something to the client that's related to items ?
21:31 <@ElvenProgrammer> ?
21:31 <+Rotonen> earlier on you talked about what you're currently working on
21:32 <@ElvenProgrammer> just fixing the equipment system, it still has a lot of bugs, most of them because we're using athena
21:33 <+Rotonen> so the cotton shirt is going to work once again soon?
21:33 <+Rotonen> because the people are complaining about it on the server, some have actually bought it :)
21:35 <@ElvenProgrammer> i bought it and equipped it, so np
21:35 <@ElvenProgrammer> the only problem is somene changed the items file
21:36 <@ElvenProgrammer> thats why you have white rects instead of the shirt
21:37 <+Rotonen> so are we going to have more items in 0.0.11 ?
21:37 <+Rotonen> and in general: what do we want 0.0.11 to include ?
21:37 <@ElvenProgrammer> well it doesnt depends on me, we need graphic, scripts and so on
21:38 <@ElvenProgrammer> 0.0.11 will probably include only bugfixing and support for the new npcs scripts
21:38 <+Rotonen> true :)
21:38 <+Rotonen> but i'm just asking that what would you like to have in 0.0.11
21:38 <@ElvenProgrammer> i hope tiled maps too
21:39 <+Rotonen> i think we'll have an upgraded tileset in it at least
21:39 <+Rotonen> yeah new maps would be nice
21:39 <@ElvenProgrammer> new monsters too
21:40 <+Rotonen> the slime is close to being complete, isn't it ?
21:40 <@ElvenProgrammer> ah ehm, neorice is not working on it, but i have a version to use anyway
21:40 <+Rotonen> and the synchronization between animation and the actual rate of hitting would be nice too
21:40 <+Rotonen> well that's what i meant: it's usable as it is
21:40 <@ElvenProgrammer> it works pretty nice on my server
21:41 <+Rotonen> the slime?
21:41 <@ElvenProgrammer> yeah
21:42 <+Rotonen> that should be enough candy for the audience :)
21:42 <+Rotonen> we do have the icons for the weapons btw
21:42 <+Rotonen> the attack animation doesn't have to change at this point
21:42 <@ElvenProgrammer> well new maps new monsters new npcs should attract a lot of people
21:42 <+Rotonen> but there should be more items implemented, the icons for them would be sufficient at the moment, right ?
21:43 <+Rotonen> and what i've talked with bear: the monster point system should reward the player with random equipment :)
21:43 <@ElvenProgrammer> we have enough icons to use knives and bows
21:43 <+Rotonen> i thought keksi made some other icons too
21:43 <@ElvenProgrammer> lemme check
21:43 <+Rotonen> on the forums :)
21:44 <+Rotonen> http://themanaworld.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=225
21:44 <@ElvenProgrammer> they're not in wiki
21:44 <+Rotonen> axe, sword, spear and.. a shuriken ?
21:45 <@ElvenProgrammer> we can use them atm
21:45 <@ElvenProgrammer> cant
21:45 <+Rotonen> why so ?
21:46 <@ElvenProgrammer> we dont have animations for boomerang sword or something else
21:46 <+Rotonen> well do we really have to have them? :)
21:46 <+Rotonen> the icon and the increase in damage would be good enough for our present audience :)
21:46 <+Rotonen> and i can't really tell if the player is punching or hitting with a dagger as it is now, so.. :)
21:47 <@ElvenProgrammer> that's why id like the playerset to be completed soon...
21:47 <+Rotonen> we can at least implement the hitting weapons (and since they're only small icons, we could have a lot of them for the 0.0.11)
21:47 <+Rotonen> and then we could start implementing the actual animations one by one, right ?
21:48 <@ElvenProgrammer> disabling the animations its pretty easy
21:48 <+Rotonen> we'll just use the animation we have now for every weapon, right ?
21:49 <+Rotonen> untill we can replace it with the proper animation :)
21:49 <+Rotonen> shouldn't be that hard to change the name of the animation it's calling (or is it calling to the spot in the palyerset?)
21:50 <+Rotonen> and more items for the monsters to randomly drop would be nice too, i think.. :]
21:50 <+Rotonen> *playerset
21:50 <+Rotonen> now if i can only rally people into doing that
21:50 <+Rotonen> haven't seen keksi in a while
21:50 <@ElvenProgrammer> yup rotonen i need help i cant do everything by myself
21:51 <@ElvenProgrammer> Rotonen: are you using opengl version or normal one?
21:51 <+Rotonen> both :)
21:52 <@ElvenProgrammer> in normal one i can see my cotton shirt perfectly
21:52 <+Rotonen> i occasionally test them both
21:52 <+Rotonen> i cannot see it in either one :) (though i've never bought it)
21:52 <+Rotonen> but the initial one
21:52 <+Rotonen> there was a point when it was visible
21:53 <@ElvenProgrammer> can you come to the upper left corner? with normal version
22:04 <+Rotonen> i think we have players online 24/7 these days :)
22:05 <+Rotonen> you left or you crashed ?
22:08 <@ElvenProgrammer> i went brushing my teets
22:09 <@ElvenProgrammer> Rotonen: can you fix the items background and add the other ones maybe?
22:10 <+Rotonen> yeah i could do it myself, but i'm not really good at anything graphical
22:10 <+Rotonen> i can at least try :)
22:10 <+Rotonen> the pink is 255.0.255 ?
22:10 <@ElvenProgrammer> yup
22:10 <+Rotonen> not tonight, but i can try to do something tomorrow
22:11 <+Rotonen> hmm kyokai should be arriving soon, right ?
22:11 <@ElvenProgrammer> you should ask Hammerbear about alphas
22:12 <+Rotonen> i don't think he's recommending the usage of alpha channels for that :)
22:13 <@ElvenProgrammer> but he removed the bright pink and committed alpha channeled items
22:13 <+Mra> hmm
22:14 <+Mra> so what will be the focus this week?
22:14 <@ElvenProgrammer> university?
22:14 <+Mra> ;)..i meant for the whole development team to concentrate on
22:15 <@ElvenProgrammer> well personally ill recompile new eathena version fix databases add new maps and monsters and npcs and fix equipment
22:16 <+Mra> alright, i guess i'm just going to go over our flyspray and see whats high priority there...also see if the post mortem bugs are completely out since Hmmerbear fixed them...
22:22 -!- qwert [HydraIRC@12.sub-166-144-31.myvzw.com] has joined #manaworld-dev
22:23 <+Rotonen> i'll be going to bed now, see you
22:23 <@ElvenProgrammer> kk
22:23 <+Mra> bye Rotonen
22:23 <@ElvenProgrammer> have a good night