This all seems interesting enough, but it is much too specific at this point. We should probably avoid plotting this kind of stuff out before any of the geography or game system are really set in stone. --Dabe 03:11, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

Dabe, Wasn't it your idea to have an official, wrong background story and and an inofficial, correct background story? How do you want to make use of it when not through specific quests? Why have a background story at all when not using it as a base for quests? When you see The Mana World as a sandbox and leave it up to the community / the game masters what happens in it we don't need a background story at all. I also think that not the geography should dictate the quests but that it should be the other way around. First we should think about what elements we want to have in the world and then build a world where these elements fit in.

--Crush 06:33, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

• I agree that geography should not dictate quests, but we shouldn't be naming towns and deciding on things, just because the quest idea needs filler.

For the latter, more systematic reason, it also seems questionable to assume anything about milestone levels and range of abilities. --Dabe 03:11, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

Regarding gameplay you should know that there is maybe more consensus about the stat and skill system than you think. When you would hang out a bit more on IRC you would maybe have a more complete view of the project.

--Crush 06:33, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

• I suppose you're probably right, that I don't have a complete view of the project. I don't think that anyone can at this point. As far as me not hanging out on IRC as much as everyone else, I have a difficult time doing this because so little seems to be discussed over the course of the day.. and I have trouble thinking constructively with all of the folks auctioning for short swords and asking for ingame directions. I will try to make myself more present in #themanaworld.. I just always figured that was more for ingame commentary than for discussing development - it seems strange to use it for both.

Purely from a story perspective, the idea offers too much chance that every character that is around for a considerable amount of time, will unwravel the secrets of history. I had hoped for an environment that used perception of time a little more playfully, where mankind wasn't on some immediate crash-course with destiny. --Dabe 03:11, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

I am not sure that i understood you right, but this sounds as if you want to unfold the plot over years parallel of the development of the game. I don't think that this is a good way of telling a story because our user base will change over the time. It would be unfair when most people can't experience the complete story because they enter the game too late or leave it too early. I can understand your concerns that it could lead to paradox situations when every character experiences the same story parallel. But i carefully tried to avoid this problem in this quest. Instead i designed the quest as a "laid out path" that can be followed by any number of players after another with different speeds without calling any paradox situations.

--Crush 06:33, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

• I'm not suggesting that we don't have any storyline or any quests. I simply don't think this is something that we should predetermine for every character. Having one master quest seems too generic. Why not gradually offer custom "main" quests for each race, if they are required. If the starting location is in the same place for everyone (ideally a centralized capital city) then it'd be pretty cool to do something about finding the secrets to their lineage. (travelling to their ancestor's native land and subsequently discovering the crystals with all of the other adventurers) It was just the specifics of going to sages and translating books.. I don't like the idea that every character, no matter their intended profession, needs to follow this path; one that seems purely a scholarly endeavor.

I agree with you in that too little over too much time can be booooring, but too much all at once can grow frustratingly stagnant for players that have been around for any considerable amount of time. I'm glad you're trying to look out for all of the people who want to come and go in a week's time, but I don't think that these players should be our primary focus. (if you finish the main quest and figure out the secrets to history, what's next?)

The way everyone is talking about their hopes for the eventual game system (with pvp and all that jive) I had imagined a setting that was more character-community / society driven. It's much easier to mess with community events than it is with historical discoveries, not to mention the fact that once someone figures everything out, it doesn't make sense that the rest of the world wouldn't somehow be made privy to that same knowledge.

I just worry that too much of a set ingame storyline will ruin the dynamics of creating and building characters. --Dabe 03:11, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

Events can be a supplement but never a complete substitute for interesting prescripted quests, because only a small part of all players who ever play the game will be able to take part in each event. A prescripted quest on the other hand can be done by everyone whenever he wants. Also note that almost every modern mmorpg makes heavy use of prescripted quests in the early and middle game, while leaving the players much more freedom to express their characters in dynamic events (like pvp wars or raids) in the end game. The reason for this is that a character with low or middle level is not yet compareable to high level characters. So they have to go through the leveling threadmill before they really can become an important part in dynamic events. Quests with interesting storylines are important to make the leveling process more interesting.

--Crush 06:33, 15 September 2006 (CEST)

• CRAPOLA!.. I've gotta run (I hate work) .. we need to get together to talk about some things today. :) I'm hoping to work with you to get the geography laid out a bit better. I have ideas for homelands, but they need detail. Sorry I'm cutting this short for the time being, talk to you in a few hours I hope.

Dabe 10:18, 15 September 2006 (CEST)