The IRC log of the meeting:

20:58 <@ElvenProgrammer> ok i guess we can start
20:59 <@ElvenProgrammer> it could be cool if rotonen was here
20:59 -!- Sull [~Gentoo@ip216-239-82-144.vif.net] has joined #manaworld-dev
20:59 -!- iru [~iru@213.25.78.245] has joined #manaworld-dev
20:59 -!- Modanung [~frode@80.126.228.195] has joined #manaworld-dev
21:00 <+Rotonen> :/
21:00 <+Rotonen> have to administer a lan party
21:00 <+Rotonen> i'm here, but i'm afk most of the time
21:00 <@Hammerbear> Ok
21:00 -!- keir [~keir@thelawsons.plus.com] has joined #manaworld-dev
21:01 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: One thing I meant to ask you about, I heared you say you put together a list of things for the next release. Where is it?
21:01 -!- mode/#manaworld-dev [+v Modanung] by ElvenProgrammer
21:02 -!- mode/#manaworld-dev [+v iru] by ElvenProgrammer
21:03 <@ElvenProgrammer> just a minute
21:05 <+Rotonen> well there has been some new art this week :)
21:05 <+Rotonen> and the flow is increasing
21:06 <+Rotonen> so we're headed in a really positive direction
21:06 <@ElvenProgrammer> show us
21:06 <+Rotonen> though the definitive work has ceized
21:06 <+Rotonen> http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Modanung/Herbagressor_progress2.png <-- a link i could find fast
21:06 <+Rotonen> i have to reconfigure the http proxy now so if you'll excuse me (i have 75 people pressuring me)
21:06 <+Modanung> I've editted it a little more
21:06 <+Modanung> I'll update it
21:08 <+iru> well. i have a question. what about animated sprites?
21:09 <+Modanung> Updated... he looks more friendly now...
21:09 <+Modanung> I'll animate this little buggar when I've finished the first frame
21:09 -!- kindjal [~tran@host101-109.pool80183.interbusiness.it] has joined #manaworld-dev
21:09 -!- mode/#manaworld-dev [+v kindjal] by Hammerbear
21:09 <+iru> http://photobucket.com/albums/y67/irukard/?action=view&current=inn-tileset.png <- some new stuff
21:10 <@Hammerbear> iru: We'll have support for animated sprites later.
21:10 <+iru> Hammerbear: so how can i make nice fire in fireplace?
21:10 <+iru> i need animation, 2 or 3 frames.
21:11 <@Hammerbear> iru: You can draw it, but there is no support at the moment, just assuring you we will add support for that later.
21:11 <+Modanung> Ok... now it's really been updated... honest.
21:11 <+Modanung> http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Modanung/Herbagressor_progress2.png
21:11 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: yeah we have to decide if we will add it in 0.0.14 or later, so iru will know if he need to draw them or not
21:11 <+iru> hmmm... and how it will be work? maybe now we should put there animated NPC (fire animation)?
21:12 <+kindjal> Modanung: i like your herbagressor :)
21:12 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: about my list it's the one i posted just before leaving
21:12 <+Modanung> kindjal: Thankyou, thankyou
21:12 <+kindjal> Modanung: it's cute, haha
21:13 <+kindjal> Modanung: not terribly agressive though
21:13 <+Modanung> kindjal: Feel like killing it then?
21:13 <@ElvenProgrammer> iru: why npcs? well don't worry about how it will be implemented ;)
21:13 <+kindjal> Modanung: not really
21:13 <+kindjal> haha
21:13 <+Modanung> That's part of the game, killing cute monsters
21:14 <@ElvenProgrammer> we need more soft monsters =)
21:14 <+iru> i have to know only that, is animated sprites will be animated tilled or cross grid sprites, handeled by XY position on map
21:15 <+kindjal> Modanung: then i'll turn myself into a monster in pants then :)
21:15 <@ElvenProgrammer> iru: i didn't understand
21:15 <+iru> yeh..
21:15 <+iru> we will have animated tiles or sprites put on map in any place we want?
21:16 <+Modanung> ElvenProgrammer: One monster at the time... I've planned a fluffy bunny-like creture.
21:16 <+iru> can someone voice Sull ?
21:16 <@Hammerbear> Well at the moment the only animation in the game is character animation, I think.
21:16 <@ElvenProgrammer> hehe nice
21:16 <@Hammerbear> We can't do a fire.
21:16 -!- mode/#manaworld-dev [+v Sull] by ElvenProgrammer
21:16 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: could we have a short talk about the use of namespaces as you suggested the other day?
21:16 <+Sull> was time shit
21:16 <+iru> :D
21:17 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Yeah, we can.
21:17 <@ElvenProgrammer> iru: i think animated tiles, but i didn't understand the other option
21:17 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: kindjal suggested the use of namespaces for our own classes, mainly for clarity.
21:18 <+iru> the other option is that, we put sprite on map by XY position - in pixels
21:18 <@Hammerbear> I thought it may be a bit too verbose.
21:18 <+iru> another layer
21:18 <+kindjal> the verbosity of namespaces is not really a problem right?
21:18 <+kindjal> as you can either alias them
21:18 <+kindjal> to make them shorter
21:19 <@Hammerbear> Hmm I guess within the namespace, you don't actually have to type it.
21:19 <+iru> well i think it may be a bit hard to reach.
21:19 <+kindjal> yeah inside the namespace you don't have to
21:19 <@Hammerbear> But it'll add another 4 spaces of indent everywhere? :P
21:20 <+kindjal> LOL
21:20 <@ElvenProgrammer> iru: well the engine is tile based so let's keep animated tiles for the moment
21:20 <+kindjal> usually people don't indent that way with namespaces :)
21:20 <@ElvenProgrammer> iru: but before animated we need static at least, as i said chairs and so on
21:20 <+kindjal> for example:
21:20 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ah, just noticed Guichan did.
21:21 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Then how do you use them?
21:21 <+kindjal> ok
21:21 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: well i guess you're more experienced than me to decide about it
21:21 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Ok... Well another thing, where did you post the list just before you left?
21:21 <+kindjal> let's say you have a class:
21:22 <+kindjal> aa::bb::cc
21:22 <+kindjal> cc being the name of the class
21:22 <+kindjal> you could for example say: using namespace aa::bb;
21:22 <+iru> ElvenProgrammer: chairs in progres. ;)
21:22 <+kindjal> and then type on cc
21:23 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: i didn't post it, i have it on paper
21:24 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ok yeah, I get it.
21:24 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Ok well anything on it you'd like to share?
21:25 <+kindjal> and the using namespace can be put anywhere
21:25 <+kindjal> not only at the start of the file
21:25 <+kindjal> you can just decide to use it in one particular function
21:25 <@ElvenProgrammer> well first of all i'd like to have the following bugs fixed in the next release
21:26 <@ElvenProgrammer> ghosts and equipment
21:26 <+Sull> the trade bug too need to be fixed
21:27 <@ElvenProgrammer> which is?
21:27 <@Hammerbear> Ok we can put roadmap on the wiki I think.
21:27 <+Modanung> And prices still need to be changed, right? Lot's of complaints about that... by alzen. :P
21:27 <@Hammerbear> Yeah and all about the same item. :P
21:27 <+Modanung> :)
21:27 <+Sull> when someone atack with a bow.if he click on you,he can open like 30-40 trade window,its harassing
21:28 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: while you're thinking about the namespaces, may i ask if the absence of exceptions in the code is wanted or not?
21:28 <+Sull> i think it should not use the same key
21:28 <+Sull> i mean trigger
21:28 <@ElvenProgrammer> ok sull, maybe you can post it on flyspray?
21:28 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Hmm I think we use an exception somewhere. :)
21:28 <+Sull> yep
21:29 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: It's not been conciously thought about.
21:29 <@ElvenProgrammer> Hammerbear: then features to add: minimap, buddylist new playerset and arena
21:29 <@Hammerbear> ElvenProgrammer: Ok, thanks.
21:29 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: no, the only place you have exceptions are in the code that does not belong to tmw :)
21:29 <@ElvenProgrammer> ok something else that you need to say?
21:29 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i checked it
21:30 -!- pinkie3 [~Miranda@ppp-157-149.27-151.libero.it] has joined #manaworld-dev
21:32 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ok I see, then the exception that we used to use in sound initialisation has been removed.
21:32 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: by the way, something strange: i can check out using my sf account as dev
21:32 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: although i can log into my account on their website
21:33 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: What do you exactly mean with the latter?
21:34 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: You haven't been granted access to our webspace yet, is that it?
21:35 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i mean that i can log in my accout on sf.net and have access to the tmw webspace
21:35 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i can see that you have granted me the rights to checkout and commit
21:35 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: but i get access denied when i tried to cvs co as dev
21:36 <@Hammerbear> Are you using ext protocol instead of pserver?
21:36 <@Hammerbear> I mean you should use ext.
21:37 <+kindjal> ext of course
21:37 <+kindjal> as for the devs, it's by ssh and therefore it's ext
21:39 <@Hammerbear> Well I don't understand, just trying a suggestion.
21:41 <+kindjal> cvs -z3 -d:ext:nthuynh@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/themanaworld co -P tmwserv
21:41 <+kindjal> it's the command i use
21:41 <+kindjal> with the export CVS_RSH=ssh of course
21:43 <+Modanung> Hammerbear: Our parents have terrorised a laminated chunk of hay!
21:43 <+Modanung> They painted a smiley on it, with (as far as I know) no permission of the owner.
21:43 <+Modanung> Anyway... back to the meeting
21:44 -!- iru is now known as iru-away
21:44 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Well I'll check your permissions.
21:44 <@Hammerbear> Modanung: I don't know what you mean. :|
21:44 <+Modanung> Take a look out the front window
21:45 <+Modanung> Let your eyes scan the fields for a smiley
21:45 <@Hammerbear> Ok, when the meeting is over.
21:45 <+Modanung> You could just walk to and fro... but suit yourself.
21:47 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ok I've reset your permissions, maybe try again.
21:48 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: ok i am trying now
21:49 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: nothing good happened.... :'(
21:50 <@Hammerbear> I don't get it.
21:51 <@Hammerbear> I'm using key authentication, which is more convenient anyway, but have no problems updating from CVS at the moment.
21:52 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i know for the key, but i have to wait until the update is done
21:52 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: too bad, it's not immediate once you upload the public key
21:54 <@Hammerbear> Hmm it was rather fast when I did that though.
21:54 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: well i'll try that tomorrow
21:54 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i mean i'll redo tomorrow
21:56 <+kindjal> what is the current server of tmw
21:56 <@Hammerbear> http://themanaworld.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap
21:56 <@Hammerbear> Started roadmap document.
21:56 <+kindjal> it's not the one from the module tmwserv, right?
21:57 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: animesites.de
21:57 -!- keir [~keir@thelawsons.plus.com] has quit [Client Quit]
21:58 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: do you mean animesites.de runs the code from the module tmwserv? or does this site provides the server?
21:59 <+deviexx> hello fellow devs
21:59 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Hmm, nothing runs the code from tmwserv as it isn't functional yet.
22:00 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: animesites.de runs eAthena.
22:00 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: that's what i thought :)
22:00 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: then i can tell you that i'd prefer to work on the tmwserv module than tmw
22:00 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: i'm more interested in programming on the server side
22:01 <+iru-away> can someone add roadmap link to main wiki page?
22:01 <+deviexx> i get off from a hard day of work and no food on the table.. blah.
22:02 <@Hammerbear> iru-away: Everybody can.
22:04 <+deviexx> anything you know off hand for me to do?
22:04 <+deviexx> ive got the next few hours free
22:05 <+deviexx> ok.. guess ill go shave and bathe
22:05 <+deviexx> bye
22:05 -!- deviexx [~deviexx@adsl-065-012-179-210.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit []
22:06 <+Modanung> :S
22:06 <@Hammerbear> Don't worry, he's our content manager. :P
22:08 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Well I'm fine with you helping server side, anything you enjoy contributing.
22:08 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: cool then :)
22:08 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Personally I've been trying to focus more on the server for past two months but keep getting occupied with client issues more.
22:09 <@Hammerbear> Somebody should review the SQL usage, the network communication layer needs to be finished, thought should be given to the way we can use XML and scripts to configure behaviour of items, quests, etc.
22:09 <@Hammerbear> A lot of things.
22:09 <@Hammerbear> Of course protocol will need to be refined as necessary.
22:10 <+kindjal> yeah
22:10 <+iru-away> Hammerbear: yeh i know that everybody can
22:10 <@Hammerbear> I am under the impression ElvenProgrammer has kinda left us.
22:10 <+kindjal> i have seen that not much has been done on the server side
22:11 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Indeed, it's still in prototyping stage.
22:11 <+iru-away> chairs sucks... maybe someone have concetion how to draw nice chair?
22:11 <@Hammerbear> I think we'll go watch a movie now, actually.
22:11 <+iru-away> *conception
22:11 <@Hammerbear> Can we declare dev meeting closed now? kindjal I suppose we'll discuss server issues in more detail later, when are you available?
22:12 <@Hammerbear> iru-away: Try Google images? :P
22:12 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: mostly during the weekend in the evening
22:12 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: when i am busy
22:12 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: or else during the weekend
22:12 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ok I'm fine with setting a time for tomorrow, just name it.
22:12 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: anytime
22:12 <@Hammerbear> Oh.
22:13 <+iru-away> http://photobucket.com/albums/y67/irukard/?action=view&current=inn-tileset.png  i draw one... but it sucks.
22:13 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: tomorrow i have been invited to a party
22:13 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: then let's say sunday
22:13 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: anytime from noon
22:13 <@Hammerbear> kindjal: Ok Sunday from like 12:00 then.
22:13 <+kindjal> Hammerbear: ok then
22:13 <+Modanung> GMT +1?
22:13 <@Hammerbear> I hope your CVS problem will be fixed then, otherwise we'll look into it some more...
22:14 <@Hammerbear> Modanung: Yeah he's same timezone.
22:14 <+Modanung> Ok
22:14 <@Hammerbear> We're GMT+2 now anyway. :P
22:14 <+Modanung> I just thought I'd remind you
22:14 <+Modanung> We are?
22:14 <@Hammerbear> Ok I'll come downstairs.
22:14 <+Modanung> Ah
2:14 <+iru-away> Poland is GMT+2 too ;)
22:14 <@Hammerbear> Meeting closed. :)
22:14 <+Modanung> With daytime sparing
22:15 <+iru-away> niah.
22:15 <+Modanung> Ok, meeting closed...
22:15 <+iru-away> so part ;)
22:15 -!- iru-away [~iru@213.25.78.245] has left #manaworld-dev []
22:15 <@Hammerbear> I'll put up the log later.