cheap diazepam cheap xenical nokia ringtones qwest ringtones zanaflex online diazepam online verizon ringtones free motorola ringtones order lortab prozac online ericsson ringtones but ortho cheap cyclobenzaprine cheap celexa free ringtones phentermine free cool ringtones cheap prozac free qwest ringtones cialis online sprint ringtones nexium online real ringtones sagem ringtones tracfone ringtones free nokia ringtones free punk ringtones mp3 ringtones sony ringtones ativan online but hgh free midi ringtones alltel ringtones cheap flexeril sony ericsson ringtones motorola ringtones vicodin online free tracfone ringtones buy soma levitra online free motorola ringtones cheap didrex cheap sildenafil pharmacy online online zoloft online hydrocodone online free sony ringtones cingular ringtones viagra buy paxil ambien online buy lortab order hydrocodone vigrx online cheap ativan hgh online sildenafil online buy viagra ortho online nextel ringtones lisinopril free funny ringtones free sony ericsson ringtones buy vicodin hydrocodone order ativan mono ringtones clonazepam levitra free sprint ringtones cialis online sony ringtones cheap levitra zanaflex online phentermine celexa online ultracet online wwe ringtones free sharp ringtones buy norco soma online cheap ultracet free cingular ringtones cheap adipex cheap xenical cheap albuterol cheap tenuate cheap ortho free music ringtones sagem ringtones cheap lisinopril meridia online cheap propecia cheap vigrx cheap diethylpropion cheap albuterol mp3 ringtones meridia online free ringtones cheap ultram soma online cheap lortab cheap sildenafil free nextel ringtones cheap lorazepam free funny ringtones diethylpropion online free ringtones funny ringtones cingular ringtones cheap soma nokia ringtones clonazepam online zyban online clomid online buy prozac online valium order lisinopril meridia online buy tramadol sharp ringtones free midi ringtones flexeril online real ringtones celexa online zoloft online free nextel ringtones ericsson ringtones free music ringtones mtv ringtones order ultram buy valium viagra online lorazepam online cheap cialis cheap phentermine buy nexium samsung ringtones cheap norco meridia online sprint ringtones buy rivotril order carisoprodol carisoprodol online cyclobenzaprine online free qwest ringtones free qwest ringtones cheap fioricet verizon ringtones punk ringtones cheap hoodia pharmacy online online tracfone ringtones tramadol cheap rivotril tramadol online didrex online cheap fioricet music ringtones cheap albuterol free nokia ringtones buy viagra buy alprazolam buy xenical pharmacy online online free funny ringtones order zanaflex free ericsson ringtones cyclobenzaprine online adipex online cheap xanax free alltel ringtones free qwest ringtones ultram online sonyericsson ringtones free samsung ringtones cheap lortab free mono ringtones free samsung ringtones zyban online cheap celexa free funny ringtones wwe ringtones cheap rivotril but clomid buy fioricet buy hgh cheap lipitor cheap hoodia clonazepam online cool ringtones tenuate online cheap vicodin real ringtones free sonyericsson ringtones buy hoodia buy tramadol nextel ringtones cheap alprazolam ambien online IRC log of the meeting:

21:14 -!- Pajarico [n=Unknow@86.Red-83-44-153.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #tmwart
21:14 <@MrLindeijer> Whee.
21:14 < Pajarico> hi
21:14 < Pajarico> Did you start?
21:14 <@MrLindeijer> Well that's two artists and the artist leader, so I think we can start.
21:14 < Pajarico> as you like :)
21:15 <@MrLindeijer> There will be no ElvenProgrammer this evening so Rotonen should lead.
21:16 < Pajarico> start, then
21:16 <@MrLindeijer> Maybe Rotonen went away for a while.
21:16 <@Rotonen> yeah
21:17 <@Rotonen> i'm here now
21:17 <@Rotonen> so Pajarico whassup? :)
21:17 <@Rotonen> the observatory interior: too modern
21:17 <@MrLindeijer> What's too modern about it?
21:17 < Pajarico> Rotonen, you don't have a way to campare
21:18 <@Rotonen> a lightbulb and such
21:18 < Pajarico> *compare
21:18 <@Rotonen> looks like 50's technology to me :)
21:18 < Pajarico> ok, you are right on that ;)
21:18 < Pajarico> let me explain
21:18 < Pajarico> I just wanted to included a lamp
21:18 < Pajarico> a electric lamp is bad idea
21:18 < Pajarico> but it can be changed for
21:18 < m[a]tt> try a mana lamp
21:19 < Pajarico> a gas lamp or a petrol lamp
21:19 <@Rotonen> but the main point is that it resembles existing stuff too much
21:19 <@Rotonen> i'd like it to be more... alien
21:19 < Pajarico> Rotonen, if you don't like the lampo, no prob really
21:19 <@Rotonen> it's not about the lamp
21:19 < Pajarico> but don't avoid the entire drawing :)
21:19 <@Rotonen> but about chalkboards, general stuff
21:20 <@Rotonen> those are things that exist :)
21:20 <@Rotonen> surpass that, be creative ^^
21:20 < Pajarico> chalkboards are for taking notes
21:20 <@MrLindeijer> I think chalkboard is ok, there's no alternative to such things.
21:20 < Pajarico> what would you put instead?
21:20 < Modanung_> Clay tablets
21:20 < Modanung_> :P
21:21 <@Rotonen> and the greatest point in that: nitpicking the details of interiors at this point is nice, but i think there is more stuff outside yet to be defined
21:21 <@Rotonen> "magical wood/stone", whatever :)
21:21 < Pajarico> Rotonen, you talked first abouti it:p
21:21 <@Rotonen> to be honest, haven't really paid any thought to interiors yet, but i got this massive rejecting feeling about the 50's feel of it
21:22 <@Rotonen> cannot hold my thought together right now due to a slight fever
21:23 < Pajarico> so is anything you like?
21:23 <@MrLindeijer> So I guess we need to think more about observatory from Roman times.
21:24 <@Rotonen> dig up the shot for me?
21:24 <@Rotonen> i'd say 1500's is enough
21:24 < Pajarico> I still thinking that it's not too modern
21:24 < Pajarico> those are technologies easily developed
21:25 < Pajarico> and we already said that the city was prosperous once
21:25 <@Rotonen> true
21:25 <@Rotonen> so technological degradation?
21:25 < Pajarico> so they could have all that technology
21:25 < Pajarico> Rotonen, maybe
21:25 <@Rotonen> we're approaching steampunk if we take that road :)
21:25 <@Rotonen> not by much, but by a bit
21:25 < Pajarico> obsolet but still usable by the teachers and students
21:25 < Modanung_> I agree with m[a]tt we could have a mana-fueled light source in a science-based enviroment like an observatory
21:26 <@Rotonen> indeed, i'm after more alien approaches
21:26 < Pajarico> Rotonen, steampunk?
21:26 < m[a]tt> i thought about something like "and the mana godness gave us this light"
21:26 <@Rotonen> it'd be cruel if the light was a little fairy creature captured within a cage
21:26 < Pajarico> Isn't mana green?
21:26 <@Rotonen> so everyone could make their own lamps
21:26 < m[a]tt> Pajarico: well mana ist the censored us version of gods
21:27 < m[a]tt> or something like that
21:27 < Modanung_> Pajarico: That's radioactive waste you're thinking about
21:27 <@MrLindeijer> Actually light fairies are a great idea. :P
21:27 <@Rotonen> it'd be a kind of a peter pan gag
21:27 < Modanung_> Yea... blegh
21:27 < Modanung_> No human-formed fairies
21:27 < Pajarico> so youlike it or you don't like it? :p
21:28 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: not going to have those
21:28 <@MrLindeijer> Ok fireflies in a pot then.
21:28 < Modanung_> Hehe
21:28 <@Rotonen> something organic for lights, definitely
21:28 < Pajarico> Rotonen, a chemical mix?
21:28 < Modanung_> I love the fireflies nailed to the wall in Alice :)
21:28 <@Rotonen> too technical, imo
21:28 < Pajarico> Rotonen, why too technical?
21:29 <@Rotonen> i think in this world the people have had no need to develop an understanding of chemistry or physics
21:29 <@Rotonen> since they have magic available
21:29 <@Rotonen> which has been the universal solution for them
21:30 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Then they wouldn't have weapons either
21:30 <@Rotonen> the ultimate swiss knife
21:30 < Pajarico> my idea is a city with science studies
21:30 < Pajarico> remember that they don't have
21:30 < Pajarico> water, or very little
21:30 <@Rotonen> well i think some technologically biased country should exist
21:30 <@Rotonen> but i don't think it should be this one
21:31 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Directing mana streams costs power, so I don't think they could be used for everything.
21:31 <@Rotonen> could be alone with my opinion, though
21:31 <@MrLindeijer> I don't care as long as both kinds of cities exist. :P
21:31 < Pajarico> and they had to develop a way to grow plants and predict rains
21:31 <@Rotonen> which reminds me: we have no idea about how the entire world is going to be like
21:31 < Pajarico> that explains the chemical and the observatory
21:32 <@MrLindeijer> If this is too modern for Tulimshar, then I guess save up the concept for a technological more advanced observatory later.
21:32 <@Rotonen> we definitely should have a grasp of the world
21:32 < Modanung_> Yup
21:32 <@MrLindeijer> True.
21:32 <@MrLindeijer> There's two world layouts I think at the moment, based on a series of mana temples.
21:32 <@Rotonen> how about a think-tank about the things we want to have in the world and then start to place them on a map?
21:32 < Modanung_> ME ME ME ME ME
21:32 < Modanung_> :P
21:33 <@Rotonen> but paj has a point about the tech in tulimshar
21:33 < Pajarico> when i think about "a technified city" i'm not thinking about tulimshar either
21:33 <@MrLindeijer> I want a statue of me somewhere.
21:33 < Pajarico> they just have mediums to survive
21:33 <@Rotonen> MrLindeijer: i wonder how our pixellators see you :)
21:33 <@MrLindeijer> :P
21:34 < Modanung_> MrLindeijer: I'll draw you with a beard
21:34 <@MrLindeijer> Well as long as it's me. :P
21:34 <@Rotonen> i was kinda afraid that Modanung would be the one :)
21:34 < Modanung_> I won't do it now
21:34 <@Rotonen> how about the boss herbivore being bjorn? :]
21:34 < Pajarico> thnks for your attention :P
21:35 < Modanung_> Rotonen: He resembles the Lava Giant from SoM :)
21:35 <@MrLindeijer> Ok I'll stop joking, you think about world layout.
21:35 <@Rotonen> indeed
21:35 <@Rotonen> let's concentrate
21:35 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Exactly
21:35 <@Rotonen> i'm kinda out of it right now so you'll have to be the sharp ones around
21:36 <@Rotonen> i'm practically limited to giving opinions
21:36 <@Rotonen> don't have a thermometer here, but the fever is rising since my vision is getting blurry moments :)
21:36 < Modanung_> I have some ideas about nations/regions
21:37 <@Rotonen> so go ahead and present them and we'll oppose/support
21:37 <@Rotonen> if Pajarico is ok with that at the moment
21:37 < Pajarico> so now my opinion matters? :P
21:37 <@Rotonen> well it always matters :D
21:38 <@Rotonen> we just don't have to agree on everything :)
21:38 < Modanung_> I had the idea of the technologically advanced region
21:38 < Modanung_> With high spired cities
21:38 <@Rotonen> don't be too hasty to draw conclusions on my final opinions about stuff
21:38 < Pajarico> Rotonen, yep, but your labor sometimes seems like doing things "your waY", you should take input from artist
21:38 < Modanung_> In a kind of plain-like region
21:39 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: just that i have a strong opinion and a clear vision without the means to produce it myself, leads to frustration :)
21:39 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: sorry, but that aside, what do we put into the forrest?
21:39 <@Rotonen> since we have the desert in some shape and some savannah too
21:39 <@Rotonen> let's start to build the world from there region by region, ok ?
21:40 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Don't you agree the whole world as to be a whole?
21:40 <@Rotonen> i don't get what you're asking..
21:40 < Pajarico> Is the way you say it, Rotonen . Is frustrating to me too to work and always get a no. I get the impression that you are enable to focus on the details and select do you like and what not
21:40 <@Rotonen> let's dig up the map from the wiki now
21:40 < Modanung_> nvm
21:41 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: well it's kinda hard with random things popping in out of nowhere and usually in conflict with each other
21:41 < Modanung_> I think the forrest should have really big cities
21:41 < Pajarico> Rotonen, what things?
21:42 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: all the things
21:42 < Pajarico> Rotonen, what things?
21:42 <@Rotonen> for example i was against the railroad but now we have a railroad in our tileset
21:42 <@Rotonen> etc :)
21:42 < Pajarico> Rotonen, mine was a suggestion, i didn't say anything to anyone
21:42 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Maybe it's better to put the train somewhere else?
21:43 < Pajarico> notmy fault
21:43 <@Rotonen> but i've partially given up on forcing my vision and let it become the common effort and "resultant vector" of our inputs
21:43 <@Rotonen> naw
21:43 <@Rotonen> i'm interested on seeing where this will lead to :)
21:43 <@Rotonen> and if there are trains, there are trainrobberies too
21:43 < Pajarico> "but i've partially given up on forcing my vision" your work is not that
21:43 <@Rotonen> and that's something i've yet to see in an mmorpg
21:44 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: well i'm not 100% sure what my job here is, so right now i'm just trying to help people concentrate AND give my opinions
21:44 < Modanung_> Rotonen: That's what I thought about too when discribing the ship-travelling
21:44 <@Rotonen> my opinions are not the final truth, they're just my opinions :)
21:44 < Pajarico> Rotonen, but you don't act like that, that's the problem
21:44 <@Rotonen> there are too many parallel conversations at the moment for me to concentrate
21:45 <@Rotonen> and i'm getting on the nerves of Pajarico :)
21:45 < Modanung_> Rotonen: I agree... the meeting is too diversive
21:45 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i've pretty much accepted your vision of the city and culture and social structure of it, right ?
21:46 <@Rotonen> and we're basically disagreeing on the tech level right now?
21:46 <@Rotonen> and i already gave in to your idea about the tech being a prerequisite of the survival on the cursed land
21:46 < Pajarico> Rotonen, read the wiki
21:46 <@Rotonen> or am i missing something? :)
21:47 <@Rotonen> where exactly?
21:47 < Pajarico> I posted suggestions DAYS ago, if not more than a week
21:47 < Pajarico> and i already suggested a advanced observatory
21:47 <@Rotonen> did you post on the forums?
21:47 < Pajarico> no one complains, -well because no one read- and now i get another no
21:48 <@Rotonen> the forums bugged out on me for a few days and i haven't been monitoring the wiki lately
21:48 < Pajarico> Rotonen, that's your job...
21:49 <@Rotonen> i've just grown to trust that everything is appearing on the forums and i think i've been at least moderately active there lately
21:49 <@Rotonen> keep in mind i do not work for tmw, i'm a volunteer and i have a midterm season coming up :)
21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, and me not?
21:49 < Pajarico> :P
21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, check "recent changes"
21:50 < Pajarico> now and then
21:50 <@Rotonen> on the page, but there are just like n 1 minor chanes to tileset mapping guide etc spam
21:50 < Pajarico> there was already a drawing explaining basically the same
21:50 <@Rotonen> mediawiki is confusing me sometimes :P
21:51 < Pajarico> just checked, no spam
21:51 <@Rotonen> i liked the old wiki better with a clear recent edits page and no extra stuff
21:51 < Pajarico> let's do a thing, let's talking about the world
21:51 <@Rotonen> it was simple enough for me :)
21:51 < Pajarico> and check the wiki someday Rotonen ! :)
21:51 <@Rotonen> where'd we put the map on the wiki?
21:51 <@Rotonen> cannot find it
21:51 <@MrLindeijer> Rotonen: This wiki displays an exclamationmark for stuff you haven't checked out yet, you can mark changes as patrolled as you catch up with tthem.
21:51 <@Rotonen> i'm lost in our own wiki :)
21:52 < Pajarico> read the suggestions and we will discuss it the next day
21:52 < Modanung_> Rotonen: World Development
21:52 <@Rotonen> lines are bouncing around in my eyes :)
21:52 <@MrLindeijer> Ok go to bed or something, heh.
21:52 <@Rotonen> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/images/2/2c/World_sketch_by_Kyokai.jpg
21:52 <@Rotonen> MrLindeijer: not giving up :P
21:53 <@Rotonen> finnish people are known for sisu
21:53 <@Rotonen> http://www.answers.com/sisu
21:53 < Pajarico> Rotonen, http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Suggestions
21:53 < Pajarico> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Talk:Tulimshar
21:54 < Pajarico> read them and we talk next meeting ;)
21:54 < Pajarico> now, WORLD DEVELOPMENT
21:54 <@MrLindeijer> Ok then show you're Finnish nature and stop making excuses about your situation. :P
21:54 <@MrLindeijer> your*
21:54 < Pajarico> "Finnish nature" XD
21:55 <@Rotonen> so we have the forrest south of the desert
21:55 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: how about tech on that island to the west?
21:55 <@Rotonen> the southern forrest should be a rainforrest, i think
21:55 <@Rotonen> south of that, marsh/swamp
21:56 < Pajarico> Rotonen, just a last question
21:56 <@Rotonen> plains to the east?
21:56 < Pajarico> did you like the "lhambra" approach?
21:56 < Pajarico> alhambra sorry
21:56 <@MrLindeijer> A city of southern California, a residential suburb of Los Angeles. Population: 87,700.
21:56 <@Rotonen> it's pointy and round at the same time
21:56 < Modanung_> Rotonen: I thought we'd do the design per region? :S
21:57 <@Rotonen> i like it :)
21:57 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: coming to it
21:57 < Pajarico> Rotonen, ok, that's something i can work with
21:57 <@Rotonen> perhaps it'd be better if there were separate concentration threads for everything on the forums and we'd just see what we'd come up with? :)
21:57 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i already thought i commented on that on the forums
21:58 <@Rotonen> could be that they were down and i only intended to do so
21:58 < Pajarico> Rotonen, may be, i haven't see anything
21:58 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Are we going to keep that map?
21:58 < Pajarico> then answer me now
21:58 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: dunno :)
21:58 <@Rotonen> i think just bout any map would be nice
21:58 < Modanung_> *sigh*
21:59 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i already said i like the idea? :)
21:59 < Pajarico> At this point don't think on the form or placement
21:59 < Pajarico> just in what we want in it
21:59 <@Rotonen> yeah
21:59 < Pajarico> Rotonen, ok :)
21:59 <@Rotonen> so, we have desert
22:00 <@Rotonen> we want savannah
22:00 <@Rotonen> we have forrest
22:00 <@Rotonen> we want jungle
22:00 <@Rotonen> we want plains
22:00 <@Rotonen> we want mountains
22:00 <@Rotonen> we want swamp
22:00 <@Rotonen> what else?
22:00 < Modanung_> And frosty land
22:00 <@Rotonen> true
22:00 < Modanung_> With snow peni
22:01 < Pajarico> savannah between sea and tulimshar?
22:02 < Modanung_> And between desert and forest
22:02 < Pajarico> ok, tulimshar, desert, savannah, forest, sea
22:03 <@Rotonen> dry coastline?
22:03 <@Rotonen> ie. wind blowing mostly from inland
22:03 < Pajarico> even wind blowing the sea is too far
22:03 < Pajarico> i guess
22:03 < Pajarico> a greenish coast
22:04 < Pajarico> with its own regional species
22:04 < Modanung_> Craaabpeople
22:04 <@Rotonen> close to mediterranean vegetation?
22:04 < Modanung_> Rotonen: More alien
22:04 < Pajarico> yep
22:04 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: in concept, not in realization :)
22:04 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Ok :)
22:05 < Pajarico> http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=palacebound4nv.png
22:05 < Pajarico> that's the door and wall for the palace
22:05 < Pajarico> a sketch, don't start saying "is not completed!" XD
22:05 <@Rotonen> an interesting door, i like that :)
22:05 <@Rotonen> non-conventional solutions, more of those
22:05 < Pajarico> have to go
22:06 <@Rotonen> yet another non-productive meeting, i suppose :)
22:06 < Modanung_> Pajarico: Somehow the doors don't seem proud
22:06 <@Rotonen> clarified something, but..
22:06 < Modanung_> Like palace doors are supposed to be in my view
22:06 <@Rotonen> i hope that opens to the in
22:06 <@Rotonen> slides in as a whole for a bit and then to the sides :)
22:08 < Modanung_> Pajarico: But maybe it's ok
22:08 < Modanung_> Pajarico: Anyway, bye
22:08 <@Rotonen> i'd need to assign people to sub-director positions
22:09 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Yup
22:09 <@Rotonen> this project has already started to grow "out of my head" :P
22:09 <@Rotonen> doesn't entirely fit in anymore
22:09 <@Rotonen> i'm pretty sure i could leave pajarico in charge of the city
22:10 <@Rotonen> then i'd need someone in charge of the desert
22:10 <@Rotonen> probably iru since it has already progressed kinda far
22:10 <@Rotonen> but he has been busy for a while, though
22:10 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Yes, iru is doing a really nice job on the desert tiles
22:10 <@Rotonen> and i was thinking about herbivores on the savannah, so you might know where this is goig at
22:10 <@Rotonen> going at
22:11 < Modanung_> Rotonen: "Finish the Herbagressor"?
22:11 <@Rotonen> although you're busy too most of the time :)
22:11 <@Rotonen> no
22:11 <@Rotonen> "finish the entire savannah"
22:11 < Modanung_> Hm ok
22:11 <@Rotonen> boss people around
22:11 <@Rotonen> after i make a post about it :P
22:11 < Modanung_> It's ok if I finish my house tiles first? :)
22:11 <@Rotonen> after i've contacted iru
22:12 <@Rotonen> you can do management for savannah and work under paj at the same time :)
22:12 <@Rotonen> to make the hierarchy more twisted :P
22:12 <@Rotonen> since i'm not an effective recruiter and manager
22:12 <@Rotonen> i'm just a bag of a lot of mixed ideas
22:12 <@Rotonen> of varying quality :)
22:12 < Modanung_> Rotonen: And you're ill
22:12 <@Rotonen> and busy with school
22:13 <@Rotonen> it's not that i'm worried about wether i'll pass the tests or not
22:13 < m[a]tt> gn8
22:13 < Modanung_> Rotonen: And about to join the army
22:13 < Modanung_> Rotonen: G'night Rotonen
22:13 <@Rotonen> but in order not to get thrown out of the researcher programme, i have to get the best possible grades :)
22:13 <@Rotonen> kinda creates a pressure there
22:14 <@Rotonen> so yer going to sleep too? :P
22:14 <@Rotonen> night
22:15 -!- m[a]tt [n=m[a]tt@p54975138.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:16 < Modanung_> Rotonen: In a short while, yea
22:17 -!- Mkael [i=Mkael@adsl-229-165.kymp.net] has quit ["Suhteessa kyllä."]
22:43 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: how about you being in charge of the city development?
22:44 <@Rotonen> iru for desert and Modanung_ for savannah
22:44 <@Rotonen> any objections
22:44 < Pajarico> everything for me?
22:44 <@Rotonen> when i've reached people, i'll put it on the forums and you'll just simply be in charge :P
22:44 <@Rotonen> and report to me on a weekly basis :)
22:44 < Pajarico> i can try it :)
22:47 < Pajarico> Rotonen, anything else?
22:47 <@Rotonen> not really untill i can contact iru
22:47 < Pajarico> ok
23:04 < Pajarico> I'm looking at some bulgarian churches
23:23 <@Rotonen> from 1600's or earlier?
23:25 < Pajarico> erm, i don't know
23:25 < Pajarico> http://www.caingram.info/Bulgaria/Bulgaria_church.jpg
23:26 < Pajarico> http://galen-frysinger.com/graphics/bulgaria.jpg
23:26 < Pajarico> http://www.peacegallery.org/images/europe/bulgaria/bulgaria12.jpg
23:27 < Pajarico> http://www.ku.edu/~osa/images/pictures/Bulgaria.jpg
23:27 < Pajarico> http://www.fantasyfacup.com/matthew/gallery/albums/istanbul-bulgaria/IMGP0044.jpg
23:27 < Pajarico> http://chehrzad.com/bulgaria/bulgaria-Thumbnails/4.jpg
23:27 < Pajarico> well ithink you get a idea :)