just brainstorming by writing any posibility i can think of without thinking about if it makes sense for us or not

using

Secret of Mana approach

hold attack button to charge. the longer you charge the better the attack when you release it.

• all weapons attacks charge like in Secret of Mana and non-weapon special attacks are Icon selectable

SD3 approach

successful normal attacks charge a combo bar which can be emptied to use a special attack

rage approach

the bar fills when YOU are hit succesfully

usual MMORPG approach

click icon or press hotkey to use special attack. each attack has a cooldown (or not). each use uses up mana (or not).

Street Fighter approach

special attacks are activated by more or less complicated finger acrobatics. they can be used without restrictions but you lose control over the character for the duration of the attack.

Mega Man approach

every special attack has a limited number of uses which can be recharged.

team formation

special attacks can only be used in parties when multiple people cooperate (like standing in a specific formation)

Magic system

Use our magic system for special attacks too, just that damage of special attacks is based on str instead of will -> would make int useful (maybe necessary?) for warriors. RP Explanation: Applied mana energy allows you to perform superhuman combat maneuvers.

Reagent

A reagent is required and consumed to use a special attack.

obtaining

learning by leveling

reach skill level X and you learn a special attack

skill tree

every skill has an ability tree. you get a skill-specific ability point on each levelup you can spend on a special attack of your choice (passive boni, too)

learning by quest

Do a quest and get teached a new special attack as a reward.

design your own special attacks

players can design their own special attacks within certain limitations

blue mage approach

learn a special attack by getting hit by it (even in PvP???)

item-based

your equipment defines what special attacks can be performed

• integrate special attacks into rune system used for magic?
  • maybe different equipment for spellcasting runes and attack runes to differentiate between mage and warrior equipment?

Learning by attributes

Attacks are unlocked by reaching certain attribute prerequisites.

Alternatively they are predefined, but your attribute distribution decides which skill gets unlocked by the levelup of the skill.

results

combo bar approach

I think a combination of the rage and SD3 approach would be good. With that method, both tanks and high agility players will be able to use skills fairly often. As for obtaining, having a skill tree, some gained by quest, and some with items would be a good combination to keep players very interested and inspired i think. -roderic

magic system approach

I am currently favoring to integrate the melee special attacks into the magic system and rune combination seamlessly. One might argue that using int and rune slots for regulating both physical and magical combat reduces the difference between mages and warriors but i think the opposite might be the case:

• Warriors need Dex+Str+Int while mages need Will+Int for maximum damage output so specialisation on one still makes sense.
• Characters have to choose if they want to use their resources (int-based mana flow and rune slots) for physical or magical combat. The logical choice would be to concentrate on one to be able to benefit from attribute specialisation.
• When we would separate magic and special atack system it would be easier for the player to utilize both independently at the same time. Would be an advantage for omni-characters (=bad).

--Crush 00:07, 24 February 2008 (CET)

combine the best of these ideas

How about using a heavy blend of many of these features? -Dabe 01:46, 25 February 2008 (CET)

utilization

• Physical attack combos would be a lot more fun than the charging method found in SoM. Charging takes too long and the attacks (in SoM) were always ridiculously wild and uncontrollable.. I'd prefer that combos worked more like normal attacks though. Imagine you have finally learned a "2-hit combo" .. now, when you successfully attack a target, your action bar recharges almost instantly, allowing you to follow through, performing your second attack. .. a character who has mastered their weapon-skill might be able to attack 4-6 times in this manner, depending on their fighting style.
• Rage / Limit Breaks are a cool feature, but I don't think everyone should have them. Berserker would seem to be a good "profession" to fit rage-type skills in to. Rages could have various effects, too.. they could take the simple form of an attack, or a more subtle status effect, like Adrenalize, Haste, etc..
• I definitely think it's a cool idea, but only if it's used similarly to Chrono Trigger's dual/triple-techniques, or to a lesser extent like Palom and Porom's Twin Magic, in Final Fantasy 4.
• You mentioned something about warriors maybe being able to channel mana to perform "super-human" combat abilities. Channeling mana for a special attack should typically result in some sort of elemental damage.. like imagine a special attack called "Flamestrike" where a warrior could channel fire through their weapon, during a normal attack.
  • Elemental damage from channeling mana should only happen if the weapon has special elemental properties or the character has had some training in that element. The better the training, the more elemental damage could be done. If they have training in multiple elements, they could choose which one to use. Training in an element would also improve elemental damage the weapon already has (if it's the same element) or replace it (if it's different). If the character has no elemental training, channeling mana would only increase damage or inherit elemental property.
    • In the game Final Fantasy 5, there was a job called "Enchanter" or "Sorcerer" or something like that. Your idea for handling the channeling of mana reminds me of that, though it'd be a very basic comparison. If you're not familiar with the job I'm referring to, you can go here for a brief description.. http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/ff5/jobs.php?job=Sorcerer

acquisition

• Using skill trees is my favorite choice, because it maintains some semblance of categorization, based on professions. Skill-trees will help to simulate classes and offer characters job titles, without the use of an actual class system. It also encourages a system where characters have to visit teachers, masters, etc.. in order to learn a new ability. I really dislike the idea of characters "realizing" abilities, without at least some initial instruction. Mastering an ability should require you to hone and practice it, but learning how to use it in the first place, should require some form of instruction.. even if you're reading it out of a book.
• "Designing" your own attacks does sound pretty bad ass, but I'm not exactly sure how this would work.
• Item-based. I would like to treat "rune slots" like "materia slots" in FF7. In that game, the equipment was geared intentionally toward class-types. Cloud's swords tend to have a very minimal amount of slots, whereas Aerith's staffs commonly have the maximum, or very close to the maximum amount. This way, equipment would help to define the difference between a warrior and magician, where a warrior's equipment typically has very few slots. This would only work well if the rune feature were kept exclusive to magic.
• Attributes are great prerequisites for individual abilities.. I'm having a bit of difficulty imagining the specifics of this feature, but regardless of how it works, I'm in total support of applying attribute requirements to abilities.

open-ended player creativity

learning

• by research - players can design their own special attacks within certain limitations
• by practice - increase skill level of special attacks by repitition
• by experience (rare odds influenced by luck and intelligence) - learn more about a special attack by getting hit by it
• by education - read a book or get training from another player to learn pre-made special attacks

enhancers - equipment accentuates special attack abilities by their energy signature and their geometry formation

But most important, let the players design their own attacks, enhancers, etc!

Who knows what kind of creative stuff the players will come up with if special attacks and enhancers are left open-ended and craftable? Players can get pretty creative! This would:

• make class types emerge out of gameplay evolution
• make things more interesting
• take some of the content-producing burden off the game designers

--Blash 20:49, 25 February 2008 (CET)