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<pre> | <pre> | ||
| Line 187: | Line 187: | ||
21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, check "recent changes" | 21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, check "recent changes" | ||
21:50 < Pajarico> now and then | 21:50 < Pajarico> now and then | ||
21:50 <@Rotonen> on the page, but there are just like n | 21:50 <@Rotonen> on the page, but there are just like n 1 minor chanes to tileset mapping guide etc spam | ||
21:50 < Pajarico> there was already a drawing explaining basically the same | 21:50 < Pajarico> there was already a drawing explaining basically the same | ||
21:50 <@Rotonen> mediawiki is confusing me sometimes :P | 21:50 <@Rotonen> mediawiki is confusing me sometimes :P | ||
Revision as of 20:39, 18 July 2007
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21:14 -!- Pajarico [n=Unknow@86.Red-83-44-153.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #tmwart 21:14 <@MrLindeijer> Whee. 21:14 < Pajarico> hi 21:14 < Pajarico> Did you start? 21:14 <@MrLindeijer> Well that's two artists and the artist leader, so I think we can start. 21:14 < Pajarico> as you like :) 21:15 <@MrLindeijer> There will be no ElvenProgrammer this evening so Rotonen should lead. 21:16 < Pajarico> start, then 21:16 <@MrLindeijer> Maybe Rotonen went away for a while. 21:16 <@Rotonen> yeah 21:17 <@Rotonen> i'm here now 21:17 <@Rotonen> so Pajarico whassup? :) 21:17 <@Rotonen> the observatory interior: too modern 21:17 <@MrLindeijer> What's too modern about it? 21:17 < Pajarico> Rotonen, you don't have a way to campare 21:18 <@Rotonen> a lightbulb and such 21:18 < Pajarico> *compare 21:18 <@Rotonen> looks like 50's technology to me :) 21:18 < Pajarico> ok, you are right on that ;) 21:18 < Pajarico> let me explain 21:18 < Pajarico> I just wanted to included a lamp 21:18 < Pajarico> a electric lamp is bad idea 21:18 < Pajarico> but it can be changed for 21:18 < m[a]tt> try a mana lamp 21:19 < Pajarico> a gas lamp or a petrol lamp 21:19 <@Rotonen> but the main point is that it resembles existing stuff too much 21:19 <@Rotonen> i'd like it to be more... alien 21:19 < Pajarico> Rotonen, if you don't like the lampo, no prob really 21:19 <@Rotonen> it's not about the lamp 21:19 < Pajarico> but don't avoid the entire drawing :) 21:19 <@Rotonen> but about chalkboards, general stuff 21:20 <@Rotonen> those are things that exist :) 21:20 <@Rotonen> surpass that, be creative ^^ 21:20 < Pajarico> chalkboards are for taking notes 21:20 <@MrLindeijer> I think chalkboard is ok, there's no alternative to such things. 21:20 < Pajarico> what would you put instead? 21:20 < Modanung_> Clay tablets 21:20 < Modanung_> :P 21:21 <@Rotonen> and the greatest point in that: nitpicking the details of interiors at this point is nice, but i think there is more stuff outside yet to be defined 21:21 <@Rotonen> "magical wood/stone", whatever :) 21:21 < Pajarico> Rotonen, you talked first abouti it:p 21:21 <@Rotonen> to be honest, haven't really paid any thought to interiors yet, but i got this massive rejecting feeling about the 50's feel of it 21:22 <@Rotonen> cannot hold my thought together right now due to a slight fever 21:23 < Pajarico> so is anything you like? 21:23 <@MrLindeijer> So I guess we need to think more about observatory from Roman times. 21:24 <@Rotonen> dig up the shot for me? 21:24 <@Rotonen> i'd say 1500's is enough 21:24 < Pajarico> I still thinking that it's not too modern 21:24 < Pajarico> those are technologies easily developed 21:25 < Pajarico> and we already said that the city was prosperous once 21:25 <@Rotonen> true 21:25 <@Rotonen> so technological degradation? 21:25 < Pajarico> so they could have all that technology 21:25 < Pajarico> Rotonen, maybe 21:25 <@Rotonen> we're approaching steampunk if we take that road :) 21:25 <@Rotonen> not by much, but by a bit 21:25 < Pajarico> obsolet but still usable by the teachers and students 21:25 < Modanung_> I agree with m[a]tt we could have a mana-fueled light source in a science-based enviroment like an observatory 21:26 <@Rotonen> indeed, i'm after more alien approaches 21:26 < Pajarico> Rotonen, steampunk? 21:26 < m[a]tt> i thought about something like "and the mana godness gave us this light" 21:26 <@Rotonen> it'd be cruel if the light was a little fairy creature captured within a cage 21:26 < Pajarico> Isn't mana green? 21:26 <@Rotonen> so everyone could make their own lamps 21:26 < m[a]tt> Pajarico: well mana ist the censored us version of gods 21:27 < m[a]tt> or something like that 21:27 < Modanung_> Pajarico: That's radioactive waste you're thinking about 21:27 <@MrLindeijer> Actually light fairies are a great idea. :P 21:27 <@Rotonen> it'd be a kind of a peter pan gag 21:27 < Modanung_> Yea... blegh 21:27 < Modanung_> No human-formed fairies 21:27 < Pajarico> so youlike it or you don't like it? :p 21:28 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: not going to have those 21:28 <@MrLindeijer> Ok fireflies in a pot then. 21:28 < Modanung_> Hehe 21:28 <@Rotonen> something organic for lights, definitely 21:28 < Pajarico> Rotonen, a chemical mix? 21:28 < Modanung_> I love the fireflies nailed to the wall in Alice :) 21:28 <@Rotonen> too technical, imo 21:28 < Pajarico> Rotonen, why too technical? 21:29 <@Rotonen> i think in this world the people have had no need to develop an understanding of chemistry or physics 21:29 <@Rotonen> since they have magic available 21:29 <@Rotonen> which has been the universal solution for them 21:30 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Then they wouldn't have weapons either 21:30 <@Rotonen> the ultimate swiss knife 21:30 < Pajarico> my idea is a city with science studies 21:30 < Pajarico> remember that they don't have 21:30 < Pajarico> water, or very little 21:30 <@Rotonen> well i think some technologically biased country should exist 21:30 <@Rotonen> but i don't think it should be this one 21:31 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Directing mana streams costs power, so I don't think they could be used for everything. 21:31 <@Rotonen> could be alone with my opinion, though 21:31 <@MrLindeijer> I don't care as long as both kinds of cities exist. :P 21:31 < Pajarico> and they had to develop a way to grow plants and predict rains 21:31 <@Rotonen> which reminds me: we have no idea about how the entire world is going to be like 21:31 < Pajarico> that explains the chemical and the observatory 21:32 <@MrLindeijer> If this is too modern for Tulimshar, then I guess save up the concept for a technological more advanced observatory later. 21:32 <@Rotonen> we definitely should have a grasp of the world 21:32 < Modanung_> Yup 21:32 <@MrLindeijer> True. 21:32 <@MrLindeijer> There's two world layouts I think at the moment, based on a series of mana temples. 21:32 <@Rotonen> how about a think-tank about the things we want to have in the world and then start to place them on a map? 21:32 < Modanung_> ME ME ME ME ME 21:32 < Modanung_> :P 21:33 <@Rotonen> but paj has a point about the tech in tulimshar 21:33 < Pajarico> when i think about "a technified city" i'm not thinking about tulimshar either 21:33 <@MrLindeijer> I want a statue of me somewhere. 21:33 < Pajarico> they just have mediums to survive 21:33 <@Rotonen> MrLindeijer: i wonder how our pixellators see you :) 21:33 <@MrLindeijer> :P 21:34 < Modanung_> MrLindeijer: I'll draw you with a beard 21:34 <@MrLindeijer> Well as long as it's me. :P 21:34 <@Rotonen> i was kinda afraid that Modanung would be the one :) 21:34 < Modanung_> I won't do it now 21:34 <@Rotonen> how about the boss herbivore being bjorn? :] 21:34 < Pajarico> thnks for your attention :P 21:35 < Modanung_> Rotonen: He resembles the Lava Giant from SoM :) 21:35 <@MrLindeijer> Ok I'll stop joking, you think about world layout. 21:35 <@Rotonen> indeed 21:35 <@Rotonen> let's concentrate 21:35 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Exactly 21:35 <@Rotonen> i'm kinda out of it right now so you'll have to be the sharp ones around 21:36 <@Rotonen> i'm practically limited to giving opinions 21:36 <@Rotonen> don't have a thermometer here, but the fever is rising since my vision is getting blurry moments :) 21:36 < Modanung_> I have some ideas about nations/regions 21:37 <@Rotonen> so go ahead and present them and we'll oppose/support 21:37 <@Rotonen> if Pajarico is ok with that at the moment 21:37 < Pajarico> so now my opinion matters? :P 21:37 <@Rotonen> well it always matters :D 21:38 <@Rotonen> we just don't have to agree on everything :) 21:38 < Modanung_> I had the idea of the technologically advanced region 21:38 < Modanung_> With high spired cities 21:38 <@Rotonen> don't be too hasty to draw conclusions on my final opinions about stuff 21:38 < Pajarico> Rotonen, yep, but your labor sometimes seems like doing things "your waY", you should take input from artist 21:38 < Modanung_> In a kind of plain-like region 21:39 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: just that i have a strong opinion and a clear vision without the means to produce it myself, leads to frustration :) 21:39 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: sorry, but that aside, what do we put into the forrest? 21:39 <@Rotonen> since we have the desert in some shape and some savannah too 21:39 <@Rotonen> let's start to build the world from there region by region, ok ? 21:40 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Don't you agree the whole world as to be a whole? 21:40 <@Rotonen> i don't get what you're asking.. 21:40 < Pajarico> Is the way you say it, Rotonen . Is frustrating to me too to work and always get a no. I get the impression that you are enable to focus on the details and select do you like and what not 21:40 <@Rotonen> let's dig up the map from the wiki now 21:40 < Modanung_> nvm 21:41 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: well it's kinda hard with random things popping in out of nowhere and usually in conflict with each other 21:41 < Modanung_> I think the forrest should have really big cities 21:41 < Pajarico> Rotonen, what things? 21:42 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: all the things 21:42 < Pajarico> Rotonen, what things? 21:42 <@Rotonen> for example i was against the railroad but now we have a railroad in our tileset 21:42 <@Rotonen> etc :) 21:42 < Pajarico> Rotonen, mine was a suggestion, i didn't say anything to anyone 21:42 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Maybe it's better to put the train somewhere else? 21:43 < Pajarico> notmy fault 21:43 <@Rotonen> but i've partially given up on forcing my vision and let it become the common effort and "resultant vector" of our inputs 21:43 <@Rotonen> naw 21:43 <@Rotonen> i'm interested on seeing where this will lead to :) 21:43 <@Rotonen> and if there are trains, there are trainrobberies too 21:43 < Pajarico> "but i've partially given up on forcing my vision" your work is not that 21:43 <@Rotonen> and that's something i've yet to see in an mmorpg 21:44 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: well i'm not 100% sure what my job here is, so right now i'm just trying to help people concentrate AND give my opinions 21:44 < Modanung_> Rotonen: That's what I thought about too when discribing the ship-travelling 21:44 <@Rotonen> my opinions are not the final truth, they're just my opinions :) 21:44 < Pajarico> Rotonen, but you don't act like that, that's the problem 21:44 <@Rotonen> there are too many parallel conversations at the moment for me to concentrate 21:45 <@Rotonen> and i'm getting on the nerves of Pajarico :) 21:45 < Modanung_> Rotonen: I agree... the meeting is too diversive 21:45 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i've pretty much accepted your vision of the city and culture and social structure of it, right ? 21:46 <@Rotonen> and we're basically disagreeing on the tech level right now? 21:46 <@Rotonen> and i already gave in to your idea about the tech being a prerequisite of the survival on the cursed land 21:46 < Pajarico> Rotonen, read the wiki 21:46 <@Rotonen> or am i missing something? :) 21:47 <@Rotonen> where exactly? 21:47 < Pajarico> I posted suggestions DAYS ago, if not more than a week 21:47 < Pajarico> and i already suggested a advanced observatory 21:47 <@Rotonen> did you post on the forums? 21:47 < Pajarico> no one complains, -well because no one read- and now i get another no 21:48 <@Rotonen> the forums bugged out on me for a few days and i haven't been monitoring the wiki lately 21:48 < Pajarico> Rotonen, that's your job... 21:49 <@Rotonen> i've just grown to trust that everything is appearing on the forums and i think i've been at least moderately active there lately 21:49 <@Rotonen> keep in mind i do not work for tmw, i'm a volunteer and i have a midterm season coming up :) 21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, and me not? 21:49 < Pajarico> :P 21:49 < Pajarico> Rotonen, check "recent changes" 21:50 < Pajarico> now and then 21:50 <@Rotonen> on the page, but there are just like n 1 minor chanes to tileset mapping guide etc spam 21:50 < Pajarico> there was already a drawing explaining basically the same 21:50 <@Rotonen> mediawiki is confusing me sometimes :P 21:51 < Pajarico> just checked, no spam 21:51 <@Rotonen> i liked the old wiki better with a clear recent edits page and no extra stuff 21:51 < Pajarico> let's do a thing, let's talking about the world 21:51 <@Rotonen> it was simple enough for me :) 21:51 < Pajarico> and check the wiki someday Rotonen ! :) 21:51 <@Rotonen> where'd we put the map on the wiki? 21:51 <@Rotonen> cannot find it 21:51 <@MrLindeijer> Rotonen: This wiki displays an exclamationmark for stuff you haven't checked out yet, you can mark changes as patrolled as you catch up with tthem. 21:51 <@Rotonen> i'm lost in our own wiki :) 21:52 < Pajarico> read the suggestions and we will discuss it the next day 21:52 < Modanung_> Rotonen: World Development 21:52 <@Rotonen> lines are bouncing around in my eyes :) 21:52 <@MrLindeijer> Ok go to bed or something, heh. 21:52 <@Rotonen> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/images/2/2c/World_sketch_by_Kyokai.jpg 21:52 <@Rotonen> MrLindeijer: not giving up :P 21:53 <@Rotonen> finnish people are known for sisu 21:53 <@Rotonen> http://www.answers.com/sisu 21:53 < Pajarico> Rotonen, http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Suggestions 21:53 < Pajarico> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Talk:Tulimshar 21:54 < Pajarico> read them and we talk next meeting ;) 21:54 < Pajarico> now, WORLD DEVELOPMENT 21:54 <@MrLindeijer> Ok then show you're Finnish nature and stop making excuses about your situation. :P 21:54 <@MrLindeijer> your* 21:54 < Pajarico> "Finnish nature" XD 21:55 <@Rotonen> so we have the forrest south of the desert 21:55 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: how about tech on that island to the west? 21:55 <@Rotonen> the southern forrest should be a rainforrest, i think 21:55 <@Rotonen> south of that, marsh/swamp 21:56 < Pajarico> Rotonen, just a last question 21:56 <@Rotonen> plains to the east? 21:56 < Pajarico> did you like the "lhambra" approach? 21:56 < Pajarico> alhambra sorry 21:56 <@MrLindeijer> A city of southern California, a residential suburb of Los Angeles. Population: 87,700. 21:56 <@Rotonen> it's pointy and round at the same time 21:56 < Modanung_> Rotonen: I thought we'd do the design per region? :S 21:57 <@Rotonen> i like it :) 21:57 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: coming to it 21:57 < Pajarico> Rotonen, ok, that's something i can work with 21:57 <@Rotonen> perhaps it'd be better if there were separate concentration threads for everything on the forums and we'd just see what we'd come up with? :) 21:57 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i already thought i commented on that on the forums 21:58 <@Rotonen> could be that they were down and i only intended to do so 21:58 < Pajarico> Rotonen, may be, i haven't see anything 21:58 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Are we going to keep that map? 21:58 < Pajarico> then answer me now 21:58 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: dunno :) 21:58 <@Rotonen> i think just bout any map would be nice 21:58 < Modanung_> *sigh* 21:59 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: i already said i like the idea? :) 21:59 < Pajarico> At this point don't think on the form or placement 21:59 < Pajarico> just in what we want in it 21:59 <@Rotonen> yeah 21:59 < Pajarico> Rotonen, ok :) 21:59 <@Rotonen> so, we have desert 22:00 <@Rotonen> we want savannah 22:00 <@Rotonen> we have forrest 22:00 <@Rotonen> we want jungle 22:00 <@Rotonen> we want plains 22:00 <@Rotonen> we want mountains 22:00 <@Rotonen> we want swamp 22:00 <@Rotonen> what else? 22:00 < Modanung_> And frosty land 22:00 <@Rotonen> true 22:00 < Modanung_> With snow peni 22:01 < Pajarico> savannah between sea and tulimshar? 22:02 < Modanung_> And between desert and forest 22:02 < Pajarico> ok, tulimshar, desert, savannah, forest, sea 22:03 <@Rotonen> dry coastline? 22:03 <@Rotonen> ie. wind blowing mostly from inland 22:03 < Pajarico> even wind blowing the sea is too far 22:03 < Pajarico> i guess 22:03 < Pajarico> a greenish coast 22:04 < Pajarico> with its own regional species 22:04 < Modanung_> Craaabpeople 22:04 <@Rotonen> close to mediterranean vegetation? 22:04 < Modanung_> Rotonen: More alien 22:04 < Pajarico> yep 22:04 <@Rotonen> Modanung_: in concept, not in realization :) 22:04 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Ok :) 22:05 < Pajarico> http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=palacebound4nv.png 22:05 < Pajarico> that's the door and wall for the palace 22:05 < Pajarico> a sketch, don't start saying "is not completed!" XD 22:05 <@Rotonen> an interesting door, i like that :) 22:05 <@Rotonen> non-conventional solutions, more of those 22:05 < Pajarico> have to go 22:06 <@Rotonen> yet another non-productive meeting, i suppose :) 22:06 < Modanung_> Pajarico: Somehow the doors don't seem proud 22:06 <@Rotonen> clarified something, but.. 22:06 < Modanung_> Like palace doors are supposed to be in my view 22:06 <@Rotonen> i hope that opens to the in 22:06 <@Rotonen> slides in as a whole for a bit and then to the sides :) 22:08 < Modanung_> Pajarico: But maybe it's ok 22:08 < Modanung_> Pajarico: Anyway, bye 22:08 <@Rotonen> i'd need to assign people to sub-director positions 22:09 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Yup 22:09 <@Rotonen> this project has already started to grow "out of my head" :P 22:09 <@Rotonen> doesn't entirely fit in anymore 22:09 <@Rotonen> i'm pretty sure i could leave pajarico in charge of the city 22:10 <@Rotonen> then i'd need someone in charge of the desert 22:10 <@Rotonen> probably iru since it has already progressed kinda far 22:10 <@Rotonen> but he has been busy for a while, though 22:10 < Modanung_> Rotonen: Yes, iru is doing a really nice job on the desert tiles 22:10 <@Rotonen> and i was thinking about herbivores on the savannah, so you might know where this is goig at 22:10 <@Rotonen> going at 22:11 < Modanung_> Rotonen: "Finish the Herbagressor"? 22:11 <@Rotonen> although you're busy too most of the time :) 22:11 <@Rotonen> no 22:11 <@Rotonen> "finish the entire savannah" 22:11 < Modanung_> Hm ok 22:11 <@Rotonen> boss people around 22:11 <@Rotonen> after i make a post about it :P 22:11 < Modanung_> It's ok if I finish my house tiles first? :) 22:11 <@Rotonen> after i've contacted iru 22:12 <@Rotonen> you can do management for savannah and work under paj at the same time :) 22:12 <@Rotonen> to make the hierarchy more twisted :P 22:12 <@Rotonen> since i'm not an effective recruiter and manager 22:12 <@Rotonen> i'm just a bag of a lot of mixed ideas 22:12 <@Rotonen> of varying quality :) 22:12 < Modanung_> Rotonen: And you're ill 22:12 <@Rotonen> and busy with school 22:13 <@Rotonen> it's not that i'm worried about wether i'll pass the tests or not 22:13 < m[a]tt> gn8 22:13 < Modanung_> Rotonen: And about to join the army 22:13 < Modanung_> Rotonen: G'night Rotonen 22:13 <@Rotonen> but in order not to get thrown out of the researcher programme, i have to get the best possible grades :) 22:13 <@Rotonen> kinda creates a pressure there 22:14 <@Rotonen> so yer going to sleep too? :P 22:14 <@Rotonen> night 22:15 -!- m[a]tt [n=m[a]tt@p54975138.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16 < Modanung_> Rotonen: In a short while, yea 22:17 -!- Mkael [i=Mkael@adsl-229-165.kymp.net] has quit ["Suhteessa kyllä."] 22:43 <@Rotonen> Pajarico: how about you being in charge of the city development? 22:44 <@Rotonen> iru for desert and Modanung_ for savannah 22:44 <@Rotonen> any objections 22:44 < Pajarico> everything for me? 22:44 <@Rotonen> when i've reached people, i'll put it on the forums and you'll just simply be in charge :P 22:44 <@Rotonen> and report to me on a weekly basis :) 22:44 < Pajarico> i can try it :) 22:47 < Pajarico> Rotonen, anything else? 22:47 <@Rotonen> not really untill i can contact iru 22:47 < Pajarico> ok 23:04 < Pajarico> I'm looking at some bulgarian churches 23:23 <@Rotonen> from 1600's or earlier? 23:25 < Pajarico> erm, i don't know 23:25 < Pajarico> http://www.caingram.info/Bulgaria/Bulgaria_church.jpg 23:26 < Pajarico> http://galen-frysinger.com/graphics/bulgaria.jpg 23:26 < Pajarico> http://www.peacegallery.org/images/europe/bulgaria/bulgaria12.jpg 23:27 < Pajarico> http://www.ku.edu/~osa/images/pictures/Bulgaria.jpg 23:27 < Pajarico> http://www.fantasyfacup.com/matthew/gallery/albums/istanbul-bulgaria/IMGP0044.jpg 23:27 < Pajarico> http://chehrzad.com/bulgaria/bulgaria-Thumbnails/4.jpg 23:27 < Pajarico> well ithink you get a idea :)
