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| = Making every attribute important = | | === Comparison with other games === |
| Bjorn Lindeijer suggested to make the system in a way that every character needs a bit of every attribute to be successful. As an example where this works he mentioned the Diablo series. But Diablo only uses four different attributes while we plan to use seven.
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| Here are some thoughts about what every single attribute could do for 4 different stereotypical characters: Melee fighters, ranged fighters, magic users and crafters.
| | Below a list of attributes encountered in other role playing games. |
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| == Melee Fighters == | | {| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" |
| Melee fighters are warriors with heavy armor who attack the enemies in close combat. They take most of the damage to protect less tough characters.
| | ! style="text-align: left; background-color: rgb(240,240,240);" | Name |
| === Strength === | | ! style="text-align: left; background-color: rgb(240,240,240);" | General effect |
| Attack Power and carrying their usually heavy equipment. '''should be required for every melee fighter'''
| | ! style="text-align: left; background-color: rgb(240,240,240);" | 1 |
| === Agility ===
| | ! style="text-align: left; background-color: rgb(240,240,240);" | 2 |
| Dodging attacks. '''Might be possible to substitute with enough vitality.'''
| | ! style="text-align: left; background-color: rgb(240,240,240);" | 3 |
| === Dexterity ===
| | |- |
| Hitting with attacks. '''should be required for every melee fighter'''
| | |''Strength'' |
| === Vitality ===
| | |Increases damage and max inventory weight |
| Surviving attacks. '''Might be possible to substitute with enough agility.'''
| | |X |
| === Intelligence ===
| | |X |
| What could a warrior need intelligence for? Maybe we could make some weapons require intelligence, where primitive weapons like maces and clubs require few intelligence while weapons that are more complicate to use like epees or whips require more intelligence. '''Would make intelligence optional for fighters'''
| | |X |
| === Willpower ===
| | |- |
| We could use willpower not only for resisting magic like the attribute system reads but also for recovering faster after hits. A character with a low willpower might be knocked down by a strong hit and stay on the ground for a while, while a high willpower character is stunned less frequently and gets on its feet much faster. '''Might be a posibility to make willpower useful for melee fighters.'''
| | |''Agility'' |
| === Charisma ===
| | |Increases chance to hit and walking speed |
| Very few MMORPGs use a charisma score as the character interaction is mostly between players and players and not between players and NPCs. Maybe we could use the charisma attribute to limit the access to locations or quests. Characters might not be able to get into cities or get quests because they don't look trustworthy enough. '''When we use this extensively we could force every character to skill some charisma.'''
| | | |
| | |X |
| | | |
| | |- |
| | |''Dexterity'' |
| | |Increases chance of evasion and missile accuracy |
| | |X |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | |- |
| | |''Vitality'' / Endurance / Constitution / Fortitude |
| | |Increases health and stamina regeneration rate |
| | |X |
| | |X |
| | |X |
| | |- |
| | |Energy / ''Intelligence'' / Magic / Mentality |
| | |Increases mana and mana regeneration rate |
| | |X |
| | |X |
| | |X |
| | |- |
| | |Wisdom |
| | |Increases how much you can remember (spells) |
| | | |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | |- |
| | |Spirit / ''Willpower'' / Awareness |
| | |Increases magic defence |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | | |
| | |- |
| | |Personality / ''Charisma'' |
| | |Related to bartering, getting information, getting into fights, diplomacy skills |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | |X |
| | |- |
| | |Luck |
| | |Increases luck in many areas |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | | |
| | |- |
| | |Speed |
| | |Determines how fast you can do things |
| | | |
| | |X |
| | | |
| | |} |
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| === Conclusion ===
| | # Diablo ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_(computer_game)#Character_Attributes attributes]) |
| In this system melee fighters can choose between low intelligence and using crude weapons (barbarian style) or high intelligence and using fine weapons (duellist style). I see no problem making both extremes and the middle road equally playable. But where I see a problem is finding a fair balance between agility and vitality that ensures that a mix of both is better than relying only on one.
| | # The Elder Scrolls (attributes in [http://www.svatopluk.com/arena/manual/stats.stm Arena], [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Character_Creation Daggerfall] and [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Attributes Oblivion]) |
| | # Angband ([http://www.zangband.org/Docs/Character-Attributes.aspx attributes]) |
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| == Ranged fighters == | | === From level to character attributes === |
| Ranged fighters usually stay behind their party avoiding direct contact with the enemy while using long range physical weapons for attacking.
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| === Strength ===
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| Although most RPG systems don't use strength for determining the efficiency for ranged weapons I would suggest that we do so. When you are stronger you can throw things harder and put more force onto a bow string. When we don't the only thing that archers would need strength for would be for carrying amunition. '''Required when used for calculating attack power, otherwise hardly useful'''
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| === Agility ===
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| Ranged fighters will usually avoid getting hit by staying out of range. Especially when playing with a party. So we '''might need to find another reason why ranged fighters need agility.'''
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| === Dexterity ===
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| Hitting accuracy should be very important for ranged fighters. '''We could add a range penalty for hitting targets so that dexterity is especially important for ranged fighters.'''
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| === Vitality ===
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| Ranged fighters will usually avoid getting hit by staying out of range. Especially when playing with a party. So we '''might need to find another reason why ranged fighters need vitality.'''
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| === Intelligence ===
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| We could use the same argument as for melee fighters. Ranged weapons usually require more thinking than melee weapons because operating a ranged weapon is usually more complicated than just whacking the enemy with it. So ranged weapons might require even more intelligence than melee weapons. An example for rather primitive ranged weapons would be slingshots. Ranged weapons that require more intelligence could be crossbows (because the mechanics require some technical understanding) or throwing knives (difficult to use). Doing so would make intelligence '''very important for ranged fighters'''
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| === Willpower ===
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| '''I wouldn't know why ranged fighters should skill willpower.'''
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| === Charisma ===
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| '''Same reason as for melee fighters.'''
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| === Conclusion ===
| | ''I think when you increase level you should get a fixed amount of points that you can use to increase your attributes. Let's say attributes go from 1 to 100, and start at 20. With the current number of attributes, that's 7 * 80 = 560 points necessary to get the theoretical maxed out character. The character goes from level 1 to 100, so per level increase we need to get 560 / 99 = 5 points. I said "theoretical maxed out character" because with it being exponentially harder to increase your skills as they come closer to 100, we can easily make it virtually impossible to actually achieve this. When starting with attributes at 20 seems too high, we can also start with attributes at 5 and go for 6 points per level.'' --[[User:Bjørn|Bjørn]] 17:13, 10 June 2006 (CEST) |
| Ranged fighters should need only 4 of the 7 attributes. I can't find a reason why ranged fighters should need any defensive stats (they will usually avoid close combat and attack from a distance).
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| == Magic Users ==
| | :Note: There is a disadvantage to deriving a level from skills: because it is an ''average'', it is not a useful number for the user to predict the outcome of battles, competitions, etc that vary in their use of the skills. Perhaps one could have a "combat level", "magic level", and an "occupation level" to fix this without having to actually compare characters on a skill-by-skill basis, or maybe something similar. --[[User:Blash|Blash]] 18:16, 15 November 2007 (CET) |
| Magic users are usually walking artillery guns who stay behind and attack the enemies with spells while others hold them off.
| | ::You can't use the level anyway for predicting the outcome of battles, since you don't know the level of your opponent unless you asked for it. And even if we had levels for different categories, it wouldn't be much more useful in my opinion. The level is meant to be a kind of average, since it represents your overal advancement in the game. --[[User:Bjørn|Bjørn]] 16:31, 19 November 2007 (CET) |
| | | :::I see. So the level would only be used as a guild/faction/player points and/or ranking mechanism, and not used in combat or skills? --[[User:Blash|Blash]] 22:58, 19 November 2007 (CET) |
| === Charisma, Willpower, Intelligence ===
| | ::::Yes, the overall character level plays no direct role for skills or combat as far as I am aware. --[[User:Bjørn|Bjørn]] 21:26, 4 September 2008 (CEST) |
| [[User:Crush/Magic_System]] covers the attributes '''charisma (number of spells available at the same time), willpower (hit propability of status effect spells), intelligence (efficiency of attack spells), dexterity (casting time) and agility (after cast delay).'''
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| === Strength ===
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| '''I wouldn't know what magic users could need strength for''' besides carrying their equipment and maybe magic tools and ingredients.
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| === Vitality ===
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| Mages will usually avoid getting hit by staying out of range. Especially when playing with a party. So we '''might need to find another reason why mages need vitality.'''
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| === Conclusion ===
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| Magic users only need those attributes that increase their magic abilities so that they inflict more damage. Strength and vitality aren't very important for mages. But that's what most players would expect from magic users, in my opinion.
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| == Crafters ==
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| Crafters are characters that have no other purpose but crafting items while the necessary resources are bought from other players or collected by other characters of the same player.
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| === Strength ===
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| Might influence the success rate or material options for crafting disciplines that require a lot of physical power like forging. Harder materials might require a minimum strength because otherwise the character is too weak to form them and thus the character can't work with them. Thus strength would be '''required for certain crafting disciplines.'''
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| === Agility ===
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| Crafters don't fight and I wouldn't know a crafting discipline where agility is important. Maybe agility could used to affect the time the character needs for crafting something. But '''the importance of this is doubtful.'''
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| === Dexterity ===
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| Might influence the success rate for almost every crafting discipline. Especially those that require fine motor skills like jewlery. Thus it would be '''required for certain crafting disciplines.'''
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| === Vitality ===
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| Crafters don't fight and I wouldn't know a crafting discipline where vitality is important. The only reason to skill vitality I could think of would be to survive the negative results of critical failures in disciplines like alchemy. But even in this case vitality '''seems quite useless for a crafter in my opinion.'''
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| === Intelligence ===
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| Might influence the success rates for crafting disciplines that require a lot of technical or scientific knowledge like mechanics or alchemy. Thus intelligence would be '''required for certain crafting disciplines.'''
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| === Willpower ===
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| I wouldn't know a crafting discipline where willpower is important. I got '''no idea why crafters would need willpower.'''
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| === Charisma ===
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| When we keep the logic from the magic system where spiritual forces are attracted by charismatic people the charisma could increase the success rate when doing magical enchantments. Thus charisma would be '''required for certain crafting disciplines.'''
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| === Conclusion ===
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| I would suggest that the success rate of every crafting discipline depends on a different percentual combination of stats so you can use the attribute distribution to specialize your crafter on a certain area of crafting. Forging could be for example 75% strength, 25% dexterity; alchemy 60% intelligence, 40% dexterity or enchanting 50% charisma, 30% intelligence, 20% dexterity.
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| But this still leaves willpower and vitality as attributes that are quite useless for crafters as I couldn't think of any kind of handcraft where this is important.
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| == General conclusion ==
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| Although I tried hardly I don't see a way to make all 7 attributes equally useful for every kind of character. Almost every character direction has at least one attribute that is almost or completely useless for it. Most have even multiple useless attributes.
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| == Comments from other users ==
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| Alright, I glanced it over and I agree that making a "class" that allows for maxing of a single stat is silly. Naturally we want to avoid omni-characters, but at the same time a little bit of each attribute makes sense: a brute-force fighter is useless if he can't hit an enemy, or gets hit (low vitality). However, I would suggest putting Strength as a weapon requirement for archers, rather than using it for hit damage. You cannot pull back a powerful bow without strength, however once you have let go of the string, all the strength in the world won't help you. Strength is only needed to prepare the shot, the actual shot itself requires dexterity (accuracy). The more accurate an archer is, the more likely he is to hit a vital point, thus doing more damage. But without strength, he will be stuck to weak bows, due to his inability to pull back the bowstring.
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| Likewise, I suggest strength as a requirement for craftsmen, with a low-percentage of change in the actual percentage. No matter how strong you are, if you lack dexterity you will mess up the item more than anything. As said, strength will only become applicable to skills requiring strength, however the strength itself won't affect how good the item is. Also, I would recommend a strength-cap, for instance, if you are working on fine-jewelry and you are strong, but lacking in dexterity, you will mess up the item more often. I suggest for the more delicate arts we apply an formula that makes sense. So if you want to forge swords and heavy weaponry, you will need more strength. If you want to forge arrows, jewelry, or other such delicate things, you will need less strength and more dexterity. Though this has already been covered, we might need more discussion on this matter.
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| I would suggest agility affect how fast the person fights/casts spells. It shouldn't have a major effect, but it should have a speed increase overall I'd say: less time for crafting, less delay on spells, less delay on hitting, etc. Also, if we keep the evasion-to-hp ratio balanced, we will create a need for both vitality and agility. For instance: if agility only adds a small chance of evading an attack, as opposed to increasing your HP by a moderate amount, we create a need for both. Agility for speed and evasion, and HP so as that you don't die in one hit. Naturally archers and mages will use more agility and less HP, whereas a fighter would use less agility and more HP, generally speaking.
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| <i><s>----</s> <u><b>[[User:Pauan|Pauan]] 01:11, 5 May 2007 (CEST)</b></u></i>
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| = Discussions leading to this document =
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| === June 9th, 2006 ===
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| A discussion about our UML design took place before this, and then changed to a discussion about the character attributes to use. We'll jump right in at that point:
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| <pre>
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| 02:34 < Bertram> anyway, i'd be for : Strength, Vitality, Agility, Intelligence, Spirit, Luck for status ones
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| 02:34 < MrLindeijer> I'm a fan of The Elder Scroll series and Diablo, so I'm familiar with their set of attributes and statusses.
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| 02:35 < Bertram> and : attack, defense, Mattack, Mdefense, speed, and Breath for attributes ones
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| 02:35 < Bertram> It's taken from a free RPG I used to play and it worked very well
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| 02:35 < MrLindeijer> Those are both lists of attributes.
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| 02:35 < MrLindeijer> The status fields were health, mana, stamina.
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| 02:36 < Bertram> Attack = Strength + SwordAttack
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| 02:36 < Bertram> HP, MP come with Attack and the other, right
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| 02:36 < MrLindeijer> Hmm I'd call that a derived attribute.
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| 02:36 < Bertram> Ahh, i see what you meant by status now
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| 02:37 < Bertram> So a being has a status(HP, MP, Breath or Stamina), attributes(Att, Def, MAtt, MDef, Speed), and derived attributes
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| 02:38 < Bertram> So a being has a status(HP, MP, Breath or Stamina), attributes(Strength, Vitality, Agility, Intelligence, Spirit, Luck), and derived attributes(Att, Def, MAtt, MDef, Speed)*
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| 02:39 < Bertram> What do you think for a proposition ?
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| 02:39 < MrLindeijer> What's Spirit?
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| 02:40 < Bertram> Intelligence would be more used for the number of spell you can use and MAtt, Spirit would be your Mdef, maybe.
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| 02:41 < Bertram> or Spirit would be Matt (cause of the Spirit Strength) and Intelligence the Mdef
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| 02:41 < Bertram> At least, I'd like to make a proposal on the terms used in the new server.
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| 02:42 < MrLindeijer> I'm writing down a list with some explanations.
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| 02:42 < MrLindeijer> I'm not fond of Luck.
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| 02:43 < Bertram> Luck is the sand in the bottle. We could use it for a little more of randomization ?
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| 02:44 < MrLindeijer> Well I don't like the idea that someone could simply get more lucky because of an attribute.
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| 02:45 < Bertram> Someone more lucky has got less in Strength. Many games are using luck in fact.
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| 02:45 < Bertram> But I can understand your cold
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| 02:45 < MrLindeijer> What about Wisdom or Dexterity?
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| 02:46 < Bertram> Dexterity would be Agility (Quite the same for me.)
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| 02:46 < Bertram> in a game though :)
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| 02:46 < MrLindeijer> I think of them as:
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| 02:46 < MrLindeijer> Agility (increases change to hit and walking speed)
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| 02:46 < MrLindeijer> Dexterity (increases change of evasion and missile accuracy)
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| 02:46 < Bertram> Wisdom could separate the intelligence for Mdef and the number of spell or the level of them you can have
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| 02:47 < Bertram> Interresting distinction...
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| 02:47 < Bertram> I agree about it
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| 02:49 < MrLindeijer> I agree they're basically the same, but the distinction allows for more variability in what you focus on or what your character behaves like.
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| 02:49 < MrLindeijer> I'm not sure though, if we should really modify walking speed.
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| 02:50 -!- Bertram25 [n=yohann@84.7.69.228] has joined #themanaworld
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| 02:51 < Bertram> Slightly, we should yes
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| 02:51 < Bertram> at 1, you walk at, for instance 1 square / sec. at 255, you do the double.
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| 02:52 < Bertram> It's very little for a progression
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| 02:52 < Bertram> but makes it
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| 02:52 -!- Bertram [n=yohann@84.7.69.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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| 02:52 -!- Bertram25 is now known as Bertram
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| 02:53 < Bertram> ah, better
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| 02:55 < MrLindeijer> Ah yeah, now I remember.
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| 02:55 < MrLindeijer> Instead of Spirit for magic defence, I'm used to Willpower.
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| 02:55 < MrLindeijer> And we haven't mentioned Endurance yet.
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| 02:56 < Bertram> Breath was that in my head
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| 02:56 < MrLindeijer> I thought that was stamina.
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| 02:58 < MrLindeijer> Ah cool, here's a good reference on the Daggerfall attributes: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Character_Creation
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| 02:58 < Bertram> good
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| 02:58 < MrLindeijer> Strength, Intelligence and Agility are in line with our thought already.
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| 02:58 < MrLindeijer> thoughts*
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| 02:58 < MrLindeijer> Apparently they didn't separate out Dexterity.
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| 02:59 < MrLindeijer> Endurance looks like what we called Vitality.
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| 03:00 < Bertram> I'd like to add Agility, though
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| 03:01 < MrLindeijer> I don't like so much their Willpower, Personality, Speed and Luck attributes. In my opinion they're too specific.
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| 03:01 < MrLindeijer> I mean they modify only one aspect.
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| 03:01 < MrLindeijer> Yes I thought we already had Agility.
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| 03:02 < Bertram> Personality is something we should add by Diplomacy handling or somewhat
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| 03:02 < Bertram> between Guilds or something like that
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| 03:03 < MrLindeijer> Two versions later (Oblivion), they had still the same attributes: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Attributes
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| 03:03 < MrLindeijer> We can also call Personality the Charisma.
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| 03:04 < MrLindeijer> Ah you mean to use it more for disposition.
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| 03:04 < Bertram> Disposition ?
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| 03:05 < MrLindeijer> Like whether you are enemy or friends with somebody.
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| 03:07 < Bertram> yes, exactly. And would be different for each guilds
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| 03:07 < Bertram> something like 0-9 bad, 10 neutral, 11-20 good, or something like that
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| 03:08 < MrLindeijer> Maybe the meaning I'm looking for is "an attitude of mind especially one that favors one alternative over others"
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| 03:08 < MrLindeijer> I mean it as something relative from you to another person.
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| 03:09 < Bertram> Affinity
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| 03:09 < MrLindeijer> But that's not really what the word disposition means.
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| 03:09 < Bertram> Sympathy ;)
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| 03:09 < MrLindeijer> Something like that.
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| 03:09 < Bertram> I like Affinity
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| 03:09 < Bertram> Sounds
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| 03:13 < Bertram> So, to summarize. I agree with Agility/Dexterity. I'd like to see an Affinity system. We can use Intelligence for Spell Numbers and Levels and Wisdom for Magic Attack
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| 03:13 < Bertram> We could also use Willpower or Spirit for Magic Defence
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| 03:13 < Bertram> What do you agree with ?
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| 03:16 < MrLindeijer> I also see Diablo basically called Intelligence Energy.
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| 03:16 < MrLindeijer> I'm not sure yet, I think we should make a list of all the stuff we have encountered so far and their meanings.
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| 03:16 < MrLindeijer> Then tomorrow we should pick a subset which we think fits well together, and refine their meaning as a group.
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| 03:17 < MrLindeijer> I'm saying tomorrow, because now I should really be going to bed.
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| 03:17 < Bertram> ok. I'll keep that in mind. Hope to see you soon
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| 03:17 < MrLindeijer> I think I'll get on IRC from like 11:00.
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| 03:19 < MrLindeijer> I liked that we've been talking about this and I think we're making good progress, both with these attributes as with the world design.
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| 03:19 < MrLindeijer> I hope with the input from Doener and Elven, we'll be able to agree on these things.
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| 03:20 < Bertram> me too, some fog on this will leave soon, i geuss
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| 03:20 < Bertram> guess*
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| 03:20 < MrLindeijer> And whoever else cares to share his thoughts.
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| 03:20 < Bertram> lol
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| 03:20 < Bertram> Never tell him ;)
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| 03:20 < MrLindeijer> At least I think this is better than relying on some dude that passes by to think out the combat and magic system for us.
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| 03:21 < MrLindeijer> Maybe you remember who I mean. :P
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| 03:21 < Bertram> yep. I'm thinking on that system since some months now, and i guess you too
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| 03:21 < Bertram> lol
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| 03:22 < Bertram> Maci ? or Matt ?
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| 03:22 < MrLindeijer> I think Crush also had some idea though, right?
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| 03:22 < MrLindeijer> I was thinking of Kyokai.
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| 03:24 -!- kNiVeZy [n=knives@0-1pool223-166.nas118.chicago3.il.us.da.qwest.net] has joined #themanaworld
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| 03:24 < MrLindeijer> But also pages like this: http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Combat_system
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| 03:26 < MrLindeijer> We should also evaluatie the three existing proposed stat systems on the wiki.
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| 03:26 < MrLindeijer> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Stat_system
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| 03:26 < MrLindeijer> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Skill_system
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| 03:26 < MrLindeijer> http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Stat_system_2
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| 03:26 < MrLindeijer> :)
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| 03:28 < MrLindeijer> To me it seems we're heading for an attribute/skill combo similar to The Elder Scrolls.
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| 03:28 < MrLindeijer> Though earlier it has also been going towards a skill-only solution I think.
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| 03:28 < Bertram> Well, I evaluated them all. And my heart of old school RPG gamer dislike them as they're quickly unplayable
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| 03:28 < MrLindeijer> Anyway, more tomorrow.
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| 03:29 < MrLindeijer> Ok. :)
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| 03:29 < MrLindeijer> Good night!
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| 03:29 < Bertram> good night !
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| 03:29 < Bertram> hey
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| 03:29 < Bertram> Did you noted things down or shall I ?
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| 03:29 < MrLindeijer> Hmm I didn't note everything down.
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| 03:30 < Bertram> But you've got the status/attribute/derivative attributes and their names ?
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| 03:31 < MrLindeijer> I'll try to make that complete and put it on the wiki somewhere.
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| 03:31 < Bertram> Ah, and tomorrow, after deciding all that, or while, we should talk back about the design.
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| 03:33 < Bertram> good night anyway
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| 03:34 < Bertram> and thanks for that lengthy talk
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| 03:34 < MrLindeijer> Ok let's see.
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| 03:36 < MrLindeijer> Bertram: http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Attributes
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| 03:36 < MrLindeijer> Could you maybe check it quickly to see if you miss something?
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| 03:37 < Bertram> it's ok for me
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| 03:38 < Bertram> You didn't talk aboit the status and derivative ones ?
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| 03:38 < MrLindeijer> Not yet.
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| 03:39 < Bertram> It's a whole thing for me
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| 03:39 < Bertram> But ok for that part anyway
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| 03:41 < MrLindeijer> Ok I've also added Luck and Speed now.
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| 03:41 < MrLindeijer> Even though I think we should leave them out.
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| 03:42 < Bertram> I think they're fine
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| 03:43 < Bertram> Especially with a working animation system
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| 03:43 < Bertram> Speed will become nice
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| 03:43 < MrLindeijer> Well I think we shouldn't make the list so long, hence the thing about choosing a subset of these attributes.
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| 03:44 < MrLindeijer> I'm not saying speed can't increase, just that I don't really like it to be done via a Speed attribute. :)
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| 03:44 < Bertram> So it should be aderivative
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| 03:44 < MrLindeijer> Anyway, sleepy time. :)
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| 03:44 < Bertram> ok. Bye and see ya
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| 03:44 < MrLindeijer> Bye.
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| </pre>
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| | |
| The next morning ElvenProgrammer took a look at it:
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| | |
| <pre>
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| 10:45 < ElvenProgrammer> ning
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| 10:45 < tehfox> have a nice morning. :-)
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| 10:58 < MrLindeijer> Hello.
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| 10:58 < the-me> hi
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| 11:00 < MrLindeijer> ElvenProgrammer: I've had a discussion about attributes with Bertram last night. To help choosing which ones we're going to use, we've summarized the ones in use in other games. I've put this on the wiki here: http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Attributes
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| 11:01 < MrLindeijer> I think we should aim for about 6 attributes.
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| 11:01 < ElvenProgrammer> can't agility and speed be merged
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| 11:02 < MrLindeijer> They are different things in The Elder Scrolls.
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| 11:02 < MrLindeijer> Of course some things can be merged.
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| 11:02 < MrLindeijer> But if you'd merge Agility with something, it'd probably be Dexterity.
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| 11:02 < ElvenProgrammer> by "change" you mean chance?
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| 11:02 < MrLindeijer> Hmm yeah.
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| 11:03 < MrLindeijer> Corrected.
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| 11:04 < ElvenProgrammer> well at least i'd consider strength, agility/dexterity, vitality and energy/magic
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| 11:04 < MrLindeijer> The Diablo ones.
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| 11:07 < ElvenProgrammer> ah yeah
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| 11:08 < ElvenProgrammer> i'd like also charisma or luck
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| 11:08 < ElvenProgrammer> and one between wisdom and spirit
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| 11:08 < ElvenProgrammer> 6 should be enough
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| 11:09 < MrLindeijer> I don't like Luck and Speed. :P
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| 11:10 < ElvenProgrammer> at least we agree on speed
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| 11:10 < MrLindeijer> I would like Agility and Dexterity to be separated. In that case, Agility takes part of the role of Speed actually.
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| 11:10 < ElvenProgrammer> should we maybe start with our proposal and go from there?
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| 11:11 < ElvenProgrammer> for me it's: strength, agility, dexterity, vitality, energy, spirit and charisma
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| 11:12 < MrLindeijer> Our proposal?
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| 11:12 < MrLindeijer> Ah I prefer intelligence and willpower for energy and spirit.
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| 11:12 < MrLindeijer> Other than that, the set of attributes is fine with me.
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| 11:13 < ElvenProgrammer> i'm ok with intelligence and willpower, so let's start with those ones ok? can you write them on wiki?
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| 11:13 < MrLindeijer> I'll make them bold maybe?
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| 11:14 < ElvenProgrammer> as you prefer
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| 11:15 -!- tehfox [n=tehfox@dial-d57.213-81-177.telecom.sk] has quit ["Leaving."]
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| 11:16 < MrLindeijer> Ok page updated.
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| 11:16 < MrLindeijer> I like it.
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| 11:17 < ElvenProgrammer> me too, having magic attack and defense somewhat really makes me happy
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| 11:18 < MrLindeijer> Yeah and the same for normal fighting looks nice.
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| 11:19 < ElvenProgrammer> ok ban time
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| 11:19 < MrLindeijer> Do you agree on the derived attributes?
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| 11:19 < MrLindeijer> I guess those are pretty obvious.
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| 11:19 < MrLindeijer> Just have seen things like attack, defence, magic attack and magic defence, and I think that's now already covered by the basic attributes.
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| 11:20 < MrLindeijer> Plus the skills and equipment.
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| 11:20 < ElvenProgrammer> of course i agree
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| </pre>
| |
