From The Mana World
(Major overhaul of the elemental scheme to coincide with Dabe and my discussions.)
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==Elements==
The main elements in the mana world are:
 
[[Image:Elements_water.png]] Water
 
[[Image:Elements_wind.png]] Air


Dabe and myself decided that there are 5 elements in the mana world.
[[Image:Elements_fire.png]] Fire
*Earth
*Water
*Fire
*Air
*Null/Void
<br>
Each element has:
*A playable [[races|race]] associated with it
*Various strengths/weakness/personalities attached to the element
*Weapons that inflict damage with the property of the element
*A [[Magic system|magic discipline]] associated to it
*Creatures that have the property of the element
<br>


==Effects of the Elements==
[[Image:Elements_earth.png]] Earth
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If we use Dabe's new idea for the races, then it will require each elemental alignment to change the person's character.


Earth, due to it's heaviness, would cause it's host to be unmovable, unwilling to change, and always sure of their actions, thus confident. Those aligned with earth tend also to be stubborn, physically strong and well balanced, due to their unmoving nature.
Every element has one element it is strong against and one it is weak against. These relationships form a circle:


Water, due to it's free-flowing nature, will also imbue this nature into it's aligned host. Plants and such like are included in this category for they are quick to change and grow. Water is associated heavily with a contentment with change and a willingness to "go with the flow." It also includes a great deal of growth, but not much stability. Thus, one aligned with water will be flexible and adaptable but very easily swayed by emotion.
*Fire is extinguished by Water  
*Water is absorbed by Earth
*Earth is eroded by Air
*Air is consumed by Fire


Fire, due to it's destructive nature, will cause all those aligned to it a fierce temper. It also imbues a great deal of energy and motivation to it's host. Passionate, outgoing people are often characterized as being aligned with fire.
Then there are four sub-elements:


Air, because of it's great freedom, allows the user to be even more free-flowing than water, also allowing tremendous intellect. Along with this great openness of nature is a feeling of elusiveness and compassion. Though those aligned with air may gain many benefits, they are unable to turn the course of the world. They are blown about by the smallest breeze without a care in the world. Thus, despite their amazing gifts, they are often unable to use them due to their evasiveness in changing the world.
[[Image:Elements_Lightning.png]] Lightning (''Air'' and ''Fire'')


Null, seeing as how it is the absence and combination of all the other elements, is not choose-able as an element. Instead, it is a goal to work towards. Naturally the name implies a lack of emotion or thought. Acting without worrying for the consequences. Following your instincts rather than your logic. All these are characteristics of Null. Likewise, because of this emptiness of mind and heart, one aligned with this element cannot be easily swayed, yet is flexible, yet is powerful. This is the end-all element, the final goal for both warrior and mage alike. One who can attain an alignment with this element will gain much both physically, mentally, and magically; though the price to be paid is a great deal of time and energy.  Likewise, in order to obtain this element, the player must first obtain all four elements, then forsake them.
Metal (''Fire'' and ''Earth'')


==Elemental Effect==
Plant (''Earth'' and ''Water'')
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Elemental-based skills / items / weapons effect (damage, cure, etc) targets based on elemental alignment. Depending on the target's elemental alignment, the effect can be increased or reduced.  
Ice (''Water'' and ''Air'')
 
==Elemental Effect on damage==
Elemental damage is mainly inflicted by magic attacks and magic weapons. Normal weapons inflict damage that is not modified by elements.
 
Every being has an elemental damage modifier for each element. These modifiers are percentual modifiers that are applied to the elemental damage the being receives before the damage reductions by physical or magical defence are applied.
 
The system allows "composite damage" attacks of unelemental and different elemental damages. When a being receives a hit by an obscure multi-elemental physical attack that gives 100 unelemental damage, 50 fire damage, 50 water damage, 50 air damage and 50 earth damage, each elemental part of the attack is modified individually. The results are added and then processed as one attack by the other damage calculation mechanics.
 
==Elemental modifiers of player characters==
The elemental modifiers of player characters are influenced slightly by its race and mostly by its equipment. They can also be changed by temporary status effects.  
 
Every piece of defensive equipment that has an elemental property lowers damage received from the element it is strong against but, on the other hand, increases the damage received from the element it is weak against by an equal factor. This means that every resistance against one element is cancelled out by an equal weakness against another element. A "rainbow equipment set" that mixes pieces of all elements results in no resistance at all because all the resistances cancel each other out. That way a character can never be completely invulnerable.


Each element has an opposing element. It deals 200% damage to the opposing element and 50% damage to itself:
For calculating these resistances and weaknesses, every defensive item with an elemental property has an elemental property modifier that is a decimal number usually slightly larger than 1.0. All elemental damage of the element it is strong against is divided through this number and all elemental damage of the element it is weak against is multiplied with this number. The elemental property modifier is communicated to the player in the item description as a percentual modifier on both elements to make it easier for the player to understand the effect of the item.
*Earth and Water
*Fire and Air


The exception to this is null, which is a combination of all the other four elements together.
This system only covers the 4 main elements. The combined elements, lightning, metal, wood and ice, aren't covered in it yet.
<br><br>
<s>According to the [[backstory]], 4 of these elements were used to create "the Guardian of Death" Fire, Earth, Darkness, Time) and the other 4 elements (Water, Air, Light, Space) were used to create "the Guardian of Life". That separates the elements into two groups of life aligned elements and death aligned elemets.


Elements deal 150% damage to elements of the other alignment other than the opposing element and 75% damage to the elements of the same alignment other than itself.</s>
:'''Example''': A mage robe of earth would, in addition to raising the characters earth magic skill, have an elemental modifier of "Earth 1.25". This means it lowers all received water damage by 20% (100% / 1.25) but increases all received air damage by 25% (100% * 1.25).


==Comments==
All elemental damage modifiers are applied one after another. This means that the total elemental modifier of a character is the multiplication of all its elemental modifiers. As long as there are no items with an elemental modifier of 0.0 no total elemental modifier of a character can reach 0 and thus grant complete immunity against an element. And such items should not exist as they would result in a division by zero when calculating the damage of the element it creates a vulnerability for (infinite damage?).
I sort of don't understand why we're listing "Ice" and "Lightning" here, unless it's simply to remind us where they will apply. I just don't want the Tritan to become associated with ice, nor the Sparron with lightning.  For air I wanted to use an Air/Aero/Wind-scheme, which seems underused in most adventure/rpgs.  With the water spells.. try to think of the difference between Marle and Frog in 'Chrono Trigger' .. I would prefer if we _mostly_ stuck to Frog's type of water-magic.  I want a Geyser spell! - [[User:Dabe|Dabe]] 18:16, 18 September 2006 (CEST)


That part about Life and Death being constructed of opposite elements was sort of a device for the human/demon struggle.  The idea was that humans believed themselves to be retainers to the fictional element of 'Life', whereas the demons believe themselves to be retainers to 'Death'. I had not imagined much in the means of it effecting gameplay. We should talk about this at some point, because it raises the question "Why bother?" .. It seems much more effective and interesting to leave the conflict at a question of, "Who is the retainer to the element of 'Mana' ..?"  This would be more fun, because both races would be arguing over which was the true retainer to an element that only exists in their imaginations. Perhaps we should reserve ourselves to getting the cycle of Life and Death agreed upon, both story and gameplay-wise. - [[User:Dabe|Dabe]] 18:16, 18 September 2006 (CEST)
:'''Example''': A character wears two very powerful water items with a modifier of "Water 2.0" each and thus has two times a 50% resistance against fire and two times 100% more damage by earth. This does not result in 0% fire damage but in 25% fire damage (0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25) and doesn't mean 300% damage by earth but 400% damage (2.0 x 2.0 = 4.0). In other words, when stacking elemental modifiers, they are multiplied by each other (cumulative).


Time and Space break the convention as "elements" and are exceedingly difficult to implement magic-wise. In "Secret of the Mana", the 8 elements included Luna (Metal) and Wood instead.  I thus submit a counter-proposal as follows: [[Image:ElementWheel.png]]
===Formula===
* 8 Elements: Metal, Fire, Light, Air, Wood, Water, Dark, and Earth (in that order)
  Damage Modifier(element) = 100% * EP(element+1) / EP(element-1)
* Each element thus has 2 neighboring elements, prehaps with moderate resistance and/or easier to learn spells
EP(element) = product of the elemental property modifiers for the element.
* Each element thus has a opposing element which it contradicts (and thus weak against)
--[[User:ArcRiley|ArcRiley]] 16:41, 7 December 2006 (CET)
: In Secret of Mana Luna did not represent metal but moonlight and Dryad represented life and nature and not wood. So that SoM argument doesn't count. --[[User:Crush|Crush]]00:43, 8 December 2006 (CET)


: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elemental_spirits_%28Seiken_Densetsu%29 , also metal and wood are found in traditional (real life) elemental wheels from various cultures, are easily seen as opposites of each other, fit well on the wheel, and make for good races & magic --[[User:ArcRiley|ArcRiley]] 10:07, 11 December 2006 (CET)
===Elemental resistances without coupling to an elemental weakness===
Equipment pieces or status effects that modify the resistance against one element without affecting the others (think "asbesto jacket" for fire resistance) are thinkable but should be rather the exception than the rule.


===Elemental modifiers < 1.0===
Elemental modifiers smaller than one would result in less damage by the element it is weak against and more damage by the element it is strong against. Such items are technically possible in this system without any problems when the content designers need such an effect.


A lot of you already know this, but I'm seriously opposed to the idea of using time and space as elements. It just makes no sense whatsoever. Yes, there WILL be people who want haste/slow/stop/quicken spells, but those can easily be used with the current elements. Fast as the wind, anyone? Use water/earth to slow your opponent. That sort of thing. It wouldn't be hard to implement at all. I also agree with Dabe: water and ice, although quite similar, and composed of the same elements, are altogether different. Water is, water. Ice is a darker, harder, and grittier form of water. -- [[User:Pauan|Pauan]] 06:17, 3 January 2007 (CET)
==Elemental resistances and weaknesses of monsters==
I think we can take the freedom to set those arbitarily. In case of monsters that are clearly the incorporation of a specific element we should stay by the rule "strong against following element - weak against preceeding", but in case of other monsters we can set the resistances as they seem plausible to us (a hay golem can be vulnerable against fire without being invulnerable to earth, for example).

Latest revision as of 14:28, 10 March 2015

This proposal has been accepted

The development team has discussed the contents of this article and has decided that it should be implemented as described. But the implementation is not finished yet. You can help to bring the features described here into the game.

Elements

The main elements in the mana world are:

Elements water.png Water

Elements wind.png Air

Elements fire.png Fire

Elements earth.png Earth

Every element has one element it is strong against and one it is weak against. These relationships form a circle:

  • Fire is extinguished by Water
  • Water is absorbed by Earth
  • Earth is eroded by Air
  • Air is consumed by Fire

Then there are four sub-elements:

Elements Lightning.png Lightning (Air and Fire)

Metal (Fire and Earth)

Plant (Earth and Water)

Ice (Water and Air)

Elemental Effect on damage

Elemental damage is mainly inflicted by magic attacks and magic weapons. Normal weapons inflict damage that is not modified by elements.

Every being has an elemental damage modifier for each element. These modifiers are percentual modifiers that are applied to the elemental damage the being receives before the damage reductions by physical or magical defence are applied.

The system allows "composite damage" attacks of unelemental and different elemental damages. When a being receives a hit by an obscure multi-elemental physical attack that gives 100 unelemental damage, 50 fire damage, 50 water damage, 50 air damage and 50 earth damage, each elemental part of the attack is modified individually. The results are added and then processed as one attack by the other damage calculation mechanics.

Elemental modifiers of player characters

The elemental modifiers of player characters are influenced slightly by its race and mostly by its equipment. They can also be changed by temporary status effects.

Every piece of defensive equipment that has an elemental property lowers damage received from the element it is strong against but, on the other hand, increases the damage received from the element it is weak against by an equal factor. This means that every resistance against one element is cancelled out by an equal weakness against another element. A "rainbow equipment set" that mixes pieces of all elements results in no resistance at all because all the resistances cancel each other out. That way a character can never be completely invulnerable.

For calculating these resistances and weaknesses, every defensive item with an elemental property has an elemental property modifier that is a decimal number usually slightly larger than 1.0. All elemental damage of the element it is strong against is divided through this number and all elemental damage of the element it is weak against is multiplied with this number. The elemental property modifier is communicated to the player in the item description as a percentual modifier on both elements to make it easier for the player to understand the effect of the item.

This system only covers the 4 main elements. The combined elements, lightning, metal, wood and ice, aren't covered in it yet.

Example: A mage robe of earth would, in addition to raising the characters earth magic skill, have an elemental modifier of "Earth 1.25". This means it lowers all received water damage by 20% (100% / 1.25) but increases all received air damage by 25% (100% * 1.25).

All elemental damage modifiers are applied one after another. This means that the total elemental modifier of a character is the multiplication of all its elemental modifiers. As long as there are no items with an elemental modifier of 0.0 no total elemental modifier of a character can reach 0 and thus grant complete immunity against an element. And such items should not exist as they would result in a division by zero when calculating the damage of the element it creates a vulnerability for (infinite damage?).

Example: A character wears two very powerful water items with a modifier of "Water 2.0" each and thus has two times a 50% resistance against fire and two times 100% more damage by earth. This does not result in 0% fire damage but in 25% fire damage (0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25) and doesn't mean 300% damage by earth but 400% damage (2.0 x 2.0 = 4.0). In other words, when stacking elemental modifiers, they are multiplied by each other (cumulative).

Formula

Damage Modifier(element) = 100% * EP(element+1) / EP(element-1)
EP(element) = product of the elemental property modifiers for the element.

Elemental resistances without coupling to an elemental weakness

Equipment pieces or status effects that modify the resistance against one element without affecting the others (think "asbesto jacket" for fire resistance) are thinkable but should be rather the exception than the rule.

Elemental modifiers < 1.0

Elemental modifiers smaller than one would result in less damage by the element it is weak against and more damage by the element it is strong against. Such items are technically possible in this system without any problems when the content designers need such an effect.

Elemental resistances and weaknesses of monsters

I think we can take the freedom to set those arbitarily. In case of monsters that are clearly the incorporation of a specific element we should stay by the rule "strong against following element - weak against preceeding", but in case of other monsters we can set the resistances as they seem plausible to us (a hay golem can be vulnerable against fire without being invulnerable to earth, for example).