From The Mana World
(made format more readable (bold+cursive for story quotes, bold for story suggestions))
(replies to Booty and a suggestion of my own.)
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== A beginning of a rewrite ==
This is an attempt to de-villainize the Gods and more importantly, to simplify things a bit.  Certain spots of the current backstory are very convoluted and either need to be completely rewritten or omitted for the sake of readability.  I want non-native english speakers to have a chance to understand at least most of the backstory; to me, it makes simplicity more important than astounding depth.  The story depth can come in the form of illustrated stories, which I feel should be another collaborative writing project for this game.  The current backstory is little more than a glorified list of events / timeline.. I'd like to develop TMW graphic novels (for the web of course, not print) or at least illustrated short stories, to supply the players with something more character driven to read.
That is another point to focus on; characters.  Events of the Modern era should speak more often of individuals than the Prehistory.
Keep in mind that the prehistory is referred to as such because of a catastrophe that separates it from the modern era.  One result of this catastrophe was a mass loss of knowledge and information.  Society had to start over after the year 0.. an important part of modern society will be archeology and a search for answers.  Different people will have different beliefs about the world, the Gods, etc..
<font color="darkred">
Some things that are still missing:
::The Sun and The Moon.
::Explanation to the death / respawn sequence.
::A ancient map of what the world used to look like, when it was all one continent; if you want to draw this, please use the landmass shape in the logo for TMW.
::Modern History, but I want to get the Prehistory settled upon before we move on to that.
</font>
Please read the following and submit feedback and also keep in mind that this is a work in progress.
===Prehistory===
''The prehistoric era begins with the presumed creation of the universe and ends upon a catastrophic note.  The modern era begins after this catasrophe.  In relation to the modern calender, no one knows how much time passed during the prehistoric era; the major difference between prehistoric and modern events is the date, or lack thereof.  Unlike our real life Gregorian calender, there is a 'year zero' between the prehistoric and modern eras.  It is assumed that the dates of some events are exact while others are approximations.  If we ever apply dates to prehistoric events, we will probably use a typical numberline-style, as previously mentioned, to include a year zero.  Terminology is another point to discuss.  Do people refer to prehistoric years as, "X years before zero"..? ..or alternatively, should we could retain the BC/AD terminology and simply redefine the acronyms to suit our needs. (for example: BC might mean "before the catastrophe" .. AD could be something like "after the devastation") This would be tacky, but would keep things familiar.''
No one knows with any level of certainty, how the universe began.  The oldest known beings are the Gods, but even they do not know how it all started, or even the details to their own origins.  Some of those with knowledge of the Gods believe that they and the universe have simply always existed; a theory which the Gods at least accept as plausible.  Each God's earliest memory is one of aimless wandering, about an empty universe.  At that time, the Gods were not only unaware of one another, but also of their own potential and significance.  After wandering for an unknown period of time, they suddenly met at the very center of the universe, where they each became fixated around a mysterious point of energy.  They named this energy 'Mana'.  The Gods studied together and became enlightened, attaining full understanding of the flow of Elements which bound them together.  Through this understanding, they learned to respect the potential and the dangers of Mana.
====the Age of Creation====
The Gods created Gaea, the world, in the spot where they met; at the center of the universe.  It was built for three reasons; first as a testament to their friendship, second as a platform for further creations and third (and most importantly), as a means of sealing Mana.  At the time of its creation, Gaea was simply a set of four Elemental realms.  The Gods planned to fill these realms with living creatures, but first they had to figure out how to create life.  Though their first creatures were impressive, they all eventually grew dangerously powerful, due mostly to their unlimited lifespans.  The Gods were able to destroy some of these early creations, but ..
<font color="darkred">
:A) use a set of recognizable, mythological creatures, such as Behemoth, Dragon, Kraken, etc..
:B) use completely original, fictional names and concepts for each of these creatures.
:C) use a combination of recognizable and original.
</font>
As a group, these creatures became known as..
<font color="darkred">
:A) Beasts
:B) Titans
:..(insert suggestion)
</font>
The first mortals eventually became the foundation to the kingdom of Animal; they were called Amorph, Bird, Fish, Insect, Mammal, Myconoid and Reptile.
Satisfied with the trial-run, the Gods proceeded to design a vast assortment of animals, using the originals as templates.
Gaea was brimming with life, but the Gods still had an insatiable urge to create.  With space for new creations running low, they began to argue over what to make next.
After stewing over the problem for quite a while, the Gods decided that with such a vast universe, that it would be more interesting to create ''new'' worlds, instead of continually redesigning Gaea.
The Gods prized the Animals, but were not confident in their ability to exercise intelligent judgment, in case of any unforeseen emergency.  Not wanting to leave Gaea (and Mana) unattended, the Gods created the [[Espers]]; Ifriton, Sparron, Talpan and Tritan.
The Gods spent time training the Espers, to act in their stead.  The Espers reached a form of enlightenment, comparable to that of the Gods.  They were taught about Mana and its universal significance.  The Gods ordered the Espers ''never'' to attempt to seek out Mana, going so far as to restrict travel through the very central part of the world.  It is covered by an inhospitable mountain-range and referred to as "the forbidden zone"..
<font color="darkred">
:"the forbidden zone" is just a temporary name .. I just wanted to drive the point across.  Suggestions?
</font>
Satisfied with their protective measures, the Gods depart, leaving Gaea for the first time since it's creation.
====the Dawn of Society====
Under the knowledgeable care of the Espers, Gaea remains in perfect ecological harmony.  Everything was going well until the Espers began to feel bored and lonely.  Observing the animals, it seemed to the Espers that a possible key to avoiding boredom might be a limited lifespan.  The animals were made to mate and multiply, which seemed to be a possible answer to loneliness.
Wishing nothing more than to end their sorrow, but not wanting to disturb the Gods, the Espers take it upon themselves to modify their own design.  Each Esper split, forming new male and female incarnations.  The Espers, now mortal like the animals, must procreate to survive.
The Espers flourish as mortals.  Each race calls a particular area of Gaea its homeland.  It is from these homelands that the races expand, until civilization covers the world.  For a long time, there are only the four races, still upholding the namesake of the original Espers. 
The races gradually interbreed, eventually creating four new races, called [[Sprites]]; Arboren, Glacean, Orelon and Raijen.
====the Age of Ancients====
The Gods have been gone for a thousand years and Gaea is still doing well, though it has changed considerably.  Espers and Sprites have maintained a peaceful society for many generations.  Collectively, their knowledge has increased, but they have lost touch with the Gods' teachings.  Though the forbidden zone has still never been breeched, it is now merely a superstition that keeps everyone away.  Instead of it being the Gods' law, passed down through the generations, it has been reduced a fear of bad luck.  Unfortunately, bad luck would not be enough to keep everyone away, forever.
====the Rise of Azerel====
Few facts exist regarding Azerel's origin; it is unknown to which race he belonged.  That information has been long lost and remains a great source of speculation, amongst modern day historians.  We know that Azerel was a traveler and that many of those who had encountered him, considered him to be mentally imbalanced.  He was driven by an idea, which many found to be anti-social and violent.  His goal in life was to create a new form of entertainment, which he called 'Battle'..  The concept revolved around the spectacle of various creatures attempting to damage and even destroy each other.  The idea was completely unpalatable to the ancient civilization and was never well-received.  Having traveled the entire world in search of an audience and finding only criticism and rejection, Azerel became bitter and angry toward society.  The only idea that he felt passion for had been denounced by everyone.  The more time passed, the angrier he became, until one day, he vowed to force his idea upon the world.
Feeling unwelcome within society, Azerel withdrew to the only place that had not yet been populated; the forbidden zone.  It was upon the area's tallest mountain which he chose to build his lair.  Unbeknownst to Azerel, this mountain happened to lie directly at the center of the world; which I'm sure you recall, is also the center of the universe. 
While constructing his tower, he began to sense an unknown power deep beneath the mountain, so he began to tunnel downward.  It took quite a while, but Azerel finally discovered Mana.  Immediately giving in to curiosity, Azerel thrust his arm into the strange energy and was instantly transformed, becoming the first Demon.
Harnassing this power, Azerel proceeded to transform others in this manner; ''these are the forefathers of today's Demon society.''  Few go willingly. The passive society is simply helpless to resist.  After swiftly taking control of the world, some actually begin to support him.  In an effort to strenghten his grip on society, Azerel decided to gather an inner circle, so he began combing the world for candidates.  At the end of his search, he found himself in the company of eight of the most powerful mortals in the world, who were each unquestionably loyal to him.
<font color="darkred">
:What do we call these people.. Azerel's Generals?  The Eight Devils of such-and-such? (reference to ''Ninja Scroll'').. Suggestions?
</font>
====Year 0: the Reign of Azerel====
<font color="darkred">I am in the middle of writing this part, but to put briefly..</font> Azerel rules for one year, which for now, we'll call "Year 0" .. marking the change in eras from Prehistoric to Modern.  At the end of this year, eight heroes emerge and destroy Azerel's inner circle, but are defeated by Azerel afterward.  Before Azerel can finish them off, the Gods return.
The Gods underestimate Azerel, who resists their attempts at persuasion. When his intentions of conquest are made clear, the Gods try to neutralize his power. Azerel laughs and shows them how it's done. The resulting expulsion of energy sends waves of destruction across the land. Many are killed, presumably including Azerel. The world is shattered and society is left in ruins.
== Suggested changes PT1 ==
== Suggested changes PT1 ==
Okay the story is under review in the forums. I just wanted to add my comments on the current one in case it is used as a starting point. [[User:Booty|Booty]] 01:47, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
Okay the story is under review in the forums. I just wanted to add my comments on the current one in case it is used as a starting point. [[User:Booty|Booty]] 01:47, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
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:'''..for an old and forgotten threat is looming in the background, plotting to make history repeat itself.'''
:'''..for an old and forgotten threat is looming in the background, plotting to make history repeat itself.'''
[[User:Booty|Booty]] 01:49, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
[[User:Booty|Booty]] 01:49, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
[[User:Dabe|Dabe]]:To be quite honest, I only ever intended this as a sort of intro / teaser line for the game.  Like something that you might read on the back of the box, were it a commercial game.  Another use would be for text during an opening sequence or demo.  At any rate, the story is undergoing some changes that will require a new intro-line be written.  Maybe we should revisit this matter after we decide on some things about the story.


----
----


== Suggested changes PT2 ==
== Suggested changes PT2 ==
Line 47: Line 166:


Okay me again. I decided to step back from this. Looking over the other pages there seems to be a large amount of content and many problems. In itself that wouldn't be a problem except I don't see a clear, consistent and organized method of editing, contributing and improving the material. [[User:Booty|Booty]] 03:03, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
Okay me again. I decided to step back from this. Looking over the other pages there seems to be a large amount of content and many problems. In itself that wouldn't be a problem except I don't see a clear, consistent and organized method of editing, contributing and improving the material. [[User:Booty|Booty]] 03:03, 11 June 2008 (CEST)
[[User:Dabe|Dabe]]:This is true.  Because this is the only online, collaborative writing project I've ever worked on, I'm at a loss for an experienced answer to the problem of submitting story ideas.  Hopefully, by getting the discussion tab moving again, you've nudged that problem a bit so that it might be addressed soon.  Someone mentioned a writing section on the forum and it's something that I've wondered about for a while.  Story items would be quickly buried in the content forum.
The other obvious option is the usually quiet #tmwart channel.  Writing could be considered a form of art, I guess.  So long as we can get there at the same time, we should be able to talk it up pretty well about story issues / suggestions / etc..  I will finally be getting back on IRC tomorrow, so starting in the morning, you should be able to find me there. 


----
----

Revision as of 06:15, 14 June 2008

A beginning of a rewrite

This is an attempt to de-villainize the Gods and more importantly, to simplify things a bit. Certain spots of the current backstory are very convoluted and either need to be completely rewritten or omitted for the sake of readability. I want non-native english speakers to have a chance to understand at least most of the backstory; to me, it makes simplicity more important than astounding depth. The story depth can come in the form of illustrated stories, which I feel should be another collaborative writing project for this game. The current backstory is little more than a glorified list of events / timeline.. I'd like to develop TMW graphic novels (for the web of course, not print) or at least illustrated short stories, to supply the players with something more character driven to read.

That is another point to focus on; characters. Events of the Modern era should speak more often of individuals than the Prehistory.

Keep in mind that the prehistory is referred to as such because of a catastrophe that separates it from the modern era. One result of this catastrophe was a mass loss of knowledge and information. Society had to start over after the year 0.. an important part of modern society will be archeology and a search for answers. Different people will have different beliefs about the world, the Gods, etc..

Some things that are still missing:

The Sun and The Moon.
Explanation to the death / respawn sequence.
A ancient map of what the world used to look like, when it was all one continent; if you want to draw this, please use the landmass shape in the logo for TMW.
Modern History, but I want to get the Prehistory settled upon before we move on to that.


Please read the following and submit feedback and also keep in mind that this is a work in progress.

Prehistory

The prehistoric era begins with the presumed creation of the universe and ends upon a catastrophic note. The modern era begins after this catasrophe. In relation to the modern calender, no one knows how much time passed during the prehistoric era; the major difference between prehistoric and modern events is the date, or lack thereof. Unlike our real life Gregorian calender, there is a 'year zero' between the prehistoric and modern eras. It is assumed that the dates of some events are exact while others are approximations. If we ever apply dates to prehistoric events, we will probably use a typical numberline-style, as previously mentioned, to include a year zero. Terminology is another point to discuss. Do people refer to prehistoric years as, "X years before zero"..? ..or alternatively, should we could retain the BC/AD terminology and simply redefine the acronyms to suit our needs. (for example: BC might mean "before the catastrophe" .. AD could be something like "after the devastation") This would be tacky, but would keep things familiar.


No one knows with any level of certainty, how the universe began. The oldest known beings are the Gods, but even they do not know how it all started, or even the details to their own origins. Some of those with knowledge of the Gods believe that they and the universe have simply always existed; a theory which the Gods at least accept as plausible. Each God's earliest memory is one of aimless wandering, about an empty universe. At that time, the Gods were not only unaware of one another, but also of their own potential and significance. After wandering for an unknown period of time, they suddenly met at the very center of the universe, where they each became fixated around a mysterious point of energy. They named this energy 'Mana'. The Gods studied together and became enlightened, attaining full understanding of the flow of Elements which bound them together. Through this understanding, they learned to respect the potential and the dangers of Mana.



the Age of Creation

The Gods created Gaea, the world, in the spot where they met; at the center of the universe. It was built for three reasons; first as a testament to their friendship, second as a platform for further creations and third (and most importantly), as a means of sealing Mana. At the time of its creation, Gaea was simply a set of four Elemental realms. The Gods planned to fill these realms with living creatures, but first they had to figure out how to create life. Though their first creatures were impressive, they all eventually grew dangerously powerful, due mostly to their unlimited lifespans. The Gods were able to destroy some of these early creations, but ..

A) use a set of recognizable, mythological creatures, such as Behemoth, Dragon, Kraken, etc..
B) use completely original, fictional names and concepts for each of these creatures.
C) use a combination of recognizable and original.


As a group, these creatures became known as..

A) Beasts
B) Titans
..(insert suggestion)


The first mortals eventually became the foundation to the kingdom of Animal; they were called Amorph, Bird, Fish, Insect, Mammal, Myconoid and Reptile.

Satisfied with the trial-run, the Gods proceeded to design a vast assortment of animals, using the originals as templates.

Gaea was brimming with life, but the Gods still had an insatiable urge to create. With space for new creations running low, they began to argue over what to make next.

After stewing over the problem for quite a while, the Gods decided that with such a vast universe, that it would be more interesting to create new worlds, instead of continually redesigning Gaea.

The Gods prized the Animals, but were not confident in their ability to exercise intelligent judgment, in case of any unforeseen emergency. Not wanting to leave Gaea (and Mana) unattended, the Gods created the Espers; Ifriton, Sparron, Talpan and Tritan.

The Gods spent time training the Espers, to act in their stead. The Espers reached a form of enlightenment, comparable to that of the Gods. They were taught about Mana and its universal significance. The Gods ordered the Espers never to attempt to seek out Mana, going so far as to restrict travel through the very central part of the world. It is covered by an inhospitable mountain-range and referred to as "the forbidden zone"..

"the forbidden zone" is just a temporary name .. I just wanted to drive the point across. Suggestions?

Satisfied with their protective measures, the Gods depart, leaving Gaea for the first time since it's creation.



the Dawn of Society

Under the knowledgeable care of the Espers, Gaea remains in perfect ecological harmony. Everything was going well until the Espers began to feel bored and lonely. Observing the animals, it seemed to the Espers that a possible key to avoiding boredom might be a limited lifespan. The animals were made to mate and multiply, which seemed to be a possible answer to loneliness.

Wishing nothing more than to end their sorrow, but not wanting to disturb the Gods, the Espers take it upon themselves to modify their own design. Each Esper split, forming new male and female incarnations. The Espers, now mortal like the animals, must procreate to survive.

The Espers flourish as mortals. Each race calls a particular area of Gaea its homeland. It is from these homelands that the races expand, until civilization covers the world. For a long time, there are only the four races, still upholding the namesake of the original Espers.

The races gradually interbreed, eventually creating four new races, called Sprites; Arboren, Glacean, Orelon and Raijen.


the Age of Ancients

The Gods have been gone for a thousand years and Gaea is still doing well, though it has changed considerably. Espers and Sprites have maintained a peaceful society for many generations. Collectively, their knowledge has increased, but they have lost touch with the Gods' teachings. Though the forbidden zone has still never been breeched, it is now merely a superstition that keeps everyone away. Instead of it being the Gods' law, passed down through the generations, it has been reduced a fear of bad luck. Unfortunately, bad luck would not be enough to keep everyone away, forever.


the Rise of Azerel

Few facts exist regarding Azerel's origin; it is unknown to which race he belonged. That information has been long lost and remains a great source of speculation, amongst modern day historians. We know that Azerel was a traveler and that many of those who had encountered him, considered him to be mentally imbalanced. He was driven by an idea, which many found to be anti-social and violent. His goal in life was to create a new form of entertainment, which he called 'Battle'.. The concept revolved around the spectacle of various creatures attempting to damage and even destroy each other. The idea was completely unpalatable to the ancient civilization and was never well-received. Having traveled the entire world in search of an audience and finding only criticism and rejection, Azerel became bitter and angry toward society. The only idea that he felt passion for had been denounced by everyone. The more time passed, the angrier he became, until one day, he vowed to force his idea upon the world.

Feeling unwelcome within society, Azerel withdrew to the only place that had not yet been populated; the forbidden zone. It was upon the area's tallest mountain which he chose to build his lair. Unbeknownst to Azerel, this mountain happened to lie directly at the center of the world; which I'm sure you recall, is also the center of the universe.

While constructing his tower, he began to sense an unknown power deep beneath the mountain, so he began to tunnel downward. It took quite a while, but Azerel finally discovered Mana. Immediately giving in to curiosity, Azerel thrust his arm into the strange energy and was instantly transformed, becoming the first Demon.

Harnassing this power, Azerel proceeded to transform others in this manner; these are the forefathers of today's Demon society. Few go willingly. The passive society is simply helpless to resist. After swiftly taking control of the world, some actually begin to support him. In an effort to strenghten his grip on society, Azerel decided to gather an inner circle, so he began combing the world for candidates. At the end of his search, he found himself in the company of eight of the most powerful mortals in the world, who were each unquestionably loyal to him.

What do we call these people.. Azerel's Generals? The Eight Devils of such-and-such? (reference to Ninja Scroll).. Suggestions?


Year 0: the Reign of Azerel

I am in the middle of writing this part, but to put briefly.. Azerel rules for one year, which for now, we'll call "Year 0" .. marking the change in eras from Prehistoric to Modern. At the end of this year, eight heroes emerge and destroy Azerel's inner circle, but are defeated by Azerel afterward. Before Azerel can finish them off, the Gods return.

The Gods underestimate Azerel, who resists their attempts at persuasion. When his intentions of conquest are made clear, the Gods try to neutralize his power. Azerel laughs and shows them how it's done. The resulting expulsion of energy sends waves of destruction across the land. Many are killed, presumably including Azerel. The world is shattered and society is left in ruins.



Suggested changes PT1

Okay the story is under review in the forums. I just wanted to add my comments on the current one in case it is used as a starting point. Booty 01:47, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Many ages ago, the world was entangled by war.

Okay ages suggests periods of transition, which is fine but these ages might need to be explained and described to better understand the depth of time and the current status of the world. Also, world being this world or some other it seems a bit ambiguous.

From the smallest tribe to the grandest of kingdoms, virtually every discernible group of mankind...

While I like the world virtually most of the time it seems to take away from the storytelling narrative, nearly or almost I feel are better choices. Discernible can be dropped, if they are a group, they are discernible. Also of mankind can be dropped, tribes and kingdoms already suggest some type of people unless there is a reason to specify humans, but there does not seem to be a reason implied from the current story or the in-game elements.

...was somehow involved.

The sentence really could be worded better I think. actually I'm stopping here and just rewriting it.

Through the darkness of war however, a light of truth somehow shone through. Amidst the previously unstoppable fighting, it was revealed that four manipulative gods were behind the chaos and confusion; that all of the misunderstandings leading to the generations of bloodshed, had been initiated by them.
People immediately stopped fighting one another, redirecting their aggression toward the Gods. Though they had destroyed much of their own civilization, ancient people were still quite powerful and in the end of the conflict, overpowered the Gods, banishing them in an explosion of magical energy. The resulting wave of destruction resonated across the globe, fragmenting the once solitary continent and killing millions.
Generations have passed since that great disaster and people are slowly but surely, picking up the pieces of society. Though the world-wide hostilities seem to have stopped, such peace is often fleeting..
..for an old and forgotten threat is looming in the background, plotting to make history repeat itself.

Booty 01:49, 11 June 2008 (CEST)


Dabe:To be quite honest, I only ever intended this as a sort of intro / teaser line for the game. Like something that you might read on the back of the box, were it a commercial game. Another use would be for text during an opening sequence or demo. At any rate, the story is undergoing some changes that will require a new intro-line be written. Maybe we should revisit this matter after we decide on some things about the story.




Suggested changes PT2

Many ages ago, the world became embroiled in blood. All of mankind, from the most modest tribesmen to the grandest of kings, became entangled in warfare. In the darkest hour of mankind's self slaughter when all lost hope for peace a shimmering truth was revealed. The four manipulative gods were responsible for the undoing of mankind.
Amidst the previously unstoppable fighting, it was revealed that four manipulative gods were behind the chaos and confusion; that all of the misunderstandings leading to the generations of bloodshed, had been initiated by them.
Mankind became unified and directed their immense war fed aggression towards the gods. While the great works and civilizations of man long since vanished as a result of endless destruction, eons of battle and violence made men well versed in methods of combats, including those arcane and battle-wrought. The war-hardened people overpowered the terrible gods and banished them from the world with an explosion of magical energy of immeasurable magnitude. The destructive energy of the blast ripped across the world's solitary continent and tore it asunder. Millions were killed and the surviving peoples were separated by seemingly unsurmountable waters and treacherous war-torn wasteland.
Since that time mankind has endured and have slowly began rebuilding the grandeur that was lost. While mankind has found peace since the time of great destruction, an old enemy looms in the shadows, threatening to repeat a terrible past.


Okay, I rewrote it in a manner more suitable to me. Tell me what you think, don't worry I am highly critical of others and expect them to be so with me. No sparing feeling. Just keep in mind that I went through this once and I'm too lazy to proof it. It is better if others do that anyway.

Some things should be added to this story: More information about the gods Background about the "world" like the name and the laws of physics applicable, an old looking map of world before the breakup would be great A better sense of time

Booty 02:47, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Silly me I just looked at the timeline and found it had a lot more information than the background. I'll update my post above to reflect the information in there. Booty 02:53, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Okay me again. I decided to step back from this. Looking over the other pages there seems to be a large amount of content and many problems. In itself that wouldn't be a problem except I don't see a clear, consistent and organized method of editing, contributing and improving the material. Booty 03:03, 11 June 2008 (CEST)


Dabe:This is true. Because this is the only online, collaborative writing project I've ever worked on, I'm at a loss for an experienced answer to the problem of submitting story ideas. Hopefully, by getting the discussion tab moving again, you've nudged that problem a bit so that it might be addressed soon. Someone mentioned a writing section on the forum and it's something that I've wondered about for a while. Story items would be quickly buried in the content forum.

The other obvious option is the usually quiet #tmwart channel. Writing could be considered a form of art, I guess. So long as we can get there at the same time, we should be able to talk it up pretty well about story issues / suggestions / etc.. I will finally be getting back on IRC tomorrow, so starting in the morning, you should be able to find me there.