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| {{Category playerinfo}} | | {{Category playerinfo}} |
| {{Status green}} | | {{Status green}} |
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| | ==Important Information== |
| | This page is for the new server. If you are looking for information regarding the walkthrough legacy server please visit |
| | [[Classic:Walkthrough]] |
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| | ==Prerequisite== |
| | To start playing you need to [https://www.themanaworld.org/registration.php create a game account]. You will also need to install [[ManaPlus]], the official game client. |
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| ==Rules and etiquette== | | ==Rules and etiquette== |
| In addition to the [[Game Rules]], we would advise the following etiquette: | | In addition to the [[Game Rules]] and the [[TMW_Social_Convention|Social Convention]], we would advise the following etiquette: |
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| # Do not drop-steal without permission (drop-steal: take items dropped by a monster someone else killed). | | # Do not drop-steal without permission (drop-steal: take items dropped by a monster someone else killed). |
| # Do not kill-steal without permission (kill-steal: kill a monster someone else is fighting to get easy exp). | | # Do not kill-steal without permission (kill-steal: kill a monster someone else is fighting to get easy exp). |
| # Be polite, take the time to greet people before you ask anything, follow the same etiquette in conversation as you would follow in real life. | | # Be polite, take the time to greet people before you ask anything, follow the same etiquette in conversation as you would follow in real life. |
| # Do not do onto others as you would not like to be done to yourself. | | # Do not do things to others as you would not like to be done to yourself. |
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| ==Default controls== | | ==Default controls== |
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| '''Keyboard''' | | ''Main article: [[ManaPlus Client]]'' |
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| | These are the default controls for the [[ManaPlus Client]]. Not all controls/shortcuts are listed here, please see the main article for more controls. |
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| {| border="1" | | {| border="1" |
| ! Key !! Action | | ! Key !! Action |
| |- | | |- |
| | Arrow Keys || move around | | | <kbd>Arrow Keys</kbd> || Move around |
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| | Ctrl ''or'' A + Z || attack
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| | F1 || toggle the online help
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| | F2 || toggle profile window
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| | F3 || toggle inventory window
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| | F4 || toggle equipment window
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| | F5 || toggle skills window
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| | F6 || toggle minimap
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| | F7 || toggle chat window
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| | F8 || toggle shortcutbar
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| | F9 || show setup window
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| | F10 || toggle debug window
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| |-
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| | Alt+0--Alt+9, - & + || show emoticons
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| | S or Alt+S || sit down / stand up
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| | Alt+F || toggle debug pathfinding feature
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| |- | | |- |
| | Alt+T || toggle ignore/allow incoming trades | | | <kbd>Ctrl</kbd> or <kbd>A + X</kbd> || Attack |
| |- | | |- |
| | Alt+P || take screenshot | | | <kbd>S</kbd> or <kbd>Alt + S</kbd> || Sit down / Stand up |
| |- | | |- |
| | A || target nearest monster | | | <kbd>A</kbd> || Target nearest monster |
| |- | | |- |
| | H || hide all non-sticky windows | | | <kbd>G</kbd> or <kbd>Z</kbd> || Pick up item |
| |- | | |- |
| | G or Z || pick up item | | | <kbd>N</kbd> || Target NPC |
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| | Enter || focus chat window / send message | | | <kbd>T</kbd> || Talk with targeted NPC |
| |- | | |- |
| | Shift || hold it when attacking to lock target for auto attack | | | <kbd>Enter</kbd> || Focus Chat window / Send message |
| |}
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| Tip: The keys listed here are the '''default''' keys. To change the keys go to setup -> keyboard.
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| '''Mouse'''
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| {| border="1"
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| ! Key !! Action
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| | Left-click (on character) || Attack
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| | Left-click (on item) || walk to and pick up
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| |- | | |- |
| | Left-click (on ground) || toggle walking in the direction of the cursor | | | <kbd>Alt + 0 </kbd> - <kbd>Alt + 9</kbd>, <kbd>Alt + -</kbd> or <kbd>Alt + =</kbd> || Show smiley |
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| | Right-click (on character) || context sensitive menu
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| |-
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| | Left-click (on ground) || toggle walking in the direction of the cursor
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| |} | | |} |
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| '''Tips:'''
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| * When using the mouse to walk, your character will automatically use a pathfinding algorithm to take the nearest route to the mouse pointer's location.
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| * Left click to execute default action: walk, pick up an item, attack a monster and talk to NPCs (be sure to click on their '''feet''').
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| * Right click to show up a context menu (trade, attack, befriend, ...). Holding [Left Shift] prevents from walking when attacking.
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| ==First steps== | | ==First steps== |
| | When you first run ManaPlus, it will do some tests to auto-detect the best video settings. When this is done, you will be presented with a login screen. To log in to the game: |
| | # Select <samp>The Mana World test server</samp> and click <samp>Connect</samp>. |
| | # Type in your user name and password (case sensitive). Click <samp>Login</samp> or push <kbd>Enter</kbd> or <kbd>Return</kbd> on your keyboard. |
| | #* If you don't have an account, click <samp>Register</samp> instead and fill out the form. |
| | #* If you wish to read any update news, change <samp>Update</samp> from <samp>Auto Close</samp> to <samp>Normal</samp>. |
| | # ManaPlus will check for and download updated game content. When it's finished, if you had set <samp>Update</samp> to <samp>Normal</samp>, click <samp>Play</samp>. |
| | # You may now select a character and click <samp>Play</samp>. To create a character: |
| | ## Click an empty space. |
| | ## Click <samp>Create</samp>. |
| | ## Give the character a name. |
| | ## Use the arrows to customize the hair color, hair style and race. |
| | # Congratulations! You are now in the game! |
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| When you first enter The Mana World on the default server (currently server.themanaworld.org), you will notice the relatively clean interface that has a few buttons. Most are self explanatory, although note that not all windows have a close button. You will have to click on the X button for them to close (supposing you opened them). There is a shortcut key to close the map in the readme. If in doubt, hit F1.
| | The storyline starts with you on a raft, adrift in the sea. It will be told by the [[Narrator]]. To continue with the story click on <samp>Next</samp> until the Narrator is done. At some point the game asks what language you speak. You can choose between English, French, Russian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Flamish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Catalan or Esperanto. It is possible to switch between languages later. After chosing you can click <samp>Submit</samp> to submit your answer. The story will continue into a tutorial, helping you with the first steps of the game. For a complete walkthrough through the game see the [[Walkthrough]] page. |
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| You've spawned in [[Candor Island]], a beautiful island for the first time! Congratulations and welcome to the Mana World. Immediately, Sorfina will talk to you. You will then learn how to play and use commands. You will also receive a Cotton Shirt in the dresser that is near you. Open your inventory (F3) and click on the Cotton Shirt, and then click Equip. The Cotton Shirt lets you be half-naked instead of naked. It will also increase your defense. A bit later, you will receive a Knife that will be useful to kill monsters such as Maggots.
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| You gain levels by killing monsters. Killing monsters is what you'll be doing usually, so you'd better get used to it. You can either click on a monster, or target the nearest one by pressing "A" and "Ctrl" to attack. It is a lot easier to beat a monster if you target and press "Shift" and "Ctrl" together. This will make you attack automatically while you don't move. Get started by killing maggots, the little white things that run around in numbers. If your health bar goes red, never fear - there is a lady by the gate called Elanore (south of where you start) who will heal you for free. But note that she won't be able to heal you forever. It's a routing process you will get used to - kill maggots, heal, keep killing maggots.
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| NPCs (Non-Playable Characters) are characters on the server. You can easily recognize them by their grayish blue name. You can click on them to talk to them. Some of them have quests for you to accomplish, others can sell things to you and buy things from you, and some others can heal you. If you walk to the right and down through the gate from where you start out, a NPC named Elanore will heal you for free until you get to Level 10. Note that if you attack by holding down the Ctrl key, you can heal by clicking her at the same time. This should help you speed through those first 20 levels by fighting fire goblins.
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| Once you've killed a monster, it dies and looks dead for a few seconds. It may drop an item. You can stand on top of the item and press "G" or "Z" to get the item. If you want to use it, it is in your inventory. If you can't use nor equip it, it might be a quest item or an useless item. Useless items can be sold to any NPC that buys and sells items, such as [[Neko]]. Although different shops sell with different prices, they all buy from you at the same price. These prices are listed thoroughly on [[Item Reference]]. If you aren't sure if an item is useless or needed for a quest, keep it and ask more experienced players.
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| From the beginning, you can directly start to get the basic skills (presented on the [[Skills]] page). These will give you needed skills, skills that you use every day.
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| Press "S" to sit. This makes your automatic recoveries go faster. You can also hold "Alt" and press any of the numbers 1 through 0, as well as the minus symbol to emote.
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| Aside from the desert land you start off with, there are quite a few different areas in The Mana World. You will have a chance to find these areas on your own. There are also many different weapons you can use besides what you start off with. Keep your eyes peeled at any shops you come across (maggots also drop something useful - a dagger, which hits considerably more than the knife you start off with (See the [[Item Reference]] for more details).
| | This page will give you some gameplay hints and tips. |
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| ==Raising your Stats== | | ==Raising your Stats== |
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| * When you gain a level in The Mana World, you are awarded points that you can distribute as you please between the various [[Stats]].
| | When you gain a level in The Mana World, you are awarded points that you can distribute as you please between the various [[Stats]]. |
| * Essentially, only two routes are beneficial in the long term, and the community refers to them as Warrior (or Melee) and Archer (or Ranged). ''It is not effective to be a magic user until high levels. Level 70 is ideal to start as mage.''
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| * Always try to keep the stats in the multiples of 5. You get bonus if your stats are in multiples of 5. For further details on each stat see the [[Stats]] page.
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| * You can always experiment your stats and equipment easily in the Test Server. I would advise you to first test your stats in Test Server.
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| ===Classes=== | | ===Classes=== |
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| TMW doesn't have any class to choose but most define [[Warrior]], [[Archer]] and [[Mage]] based on their stats and equipment. One can build stats to be [[Archer]], [[Warrior]] and [[Mage]] at the same time with just change of equipment but it will consume more stat points. For starters and other new players, it's recomended to start as [[Warrior]] and then convert to [[Archer]] at level 30 when you completed [[Bandit Quest]]. You can start as [[Mage]] at level 70 after you complete [[Cindy Quest]].
| | The Mana World doesn't have any set classes, instead skill points can be distributed as you like to make up the character you want. The basic "builds" are [[Warrior]], [[Archer]] and [[Mage]]. They are based on their level, statistics, skills and equipment. Beginner characters until around level 10 are a basic warrior class, which is the simplest build, allowing you to get familiar with the game. |
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| *'''[[Warrior]]''' uses melee weapon or sword to fight. For more details visit [[Warrior]]. | | *'''[[Warrior]]''' uses melee weapon or sword to fight. For more details visit [[Warrior]]. |
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| *'''[[Archer]]''' is easy to play and can level up fast. [[Archer]] uses bow and arrows. For more details visit [[Archer]]. | | *'''[[Archer]]''' uses a bow to fight. For more details visit [[Archer]]. |
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| *'''[[Mage]]''' uses magic to fight and heal. It's easier to play [[Mage]] at high level. For more details visit [[Mage]]. | | *'''[[Mage]]''' uses magic to fight and heal. For more details visit [[Mage]]. |
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| ===Stat Reset===
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| [[Malivox]] and [[Wyara]] are [[NPC]]s, who can reset your [[stats|status points]]. So if you want to change your class, or you maybe accidentally raised INT instead of DEX, or whatever makes you want to redistribute your status points, just visit them.
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| ==Magic== | | ==Magic== |
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| See the article named [[Magic]]. | | See the article named [[Magic]]. |
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| ==Quick walkthrough==
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| *'''LVL 1-15''':
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| **Kill maggots and the occasional scorpion.
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| **Kill fire goblins while you can heal for free from Elanore in Tulimshar or the nurse in Hurnscald (they will only heal while you are level 10 and under).
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| *'''LVL 13-28''':
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| **Kill pinkies to get a [[Scythe]] [Read Below].
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| **Complete the Mines part of [[Tulimshar Quests]] to get the '''Short Bow'''
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| **Kill bats, pinkies, squirrels and fluffies. (Fluffies give the best average experience.)
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| *'''LVL 25-40''':
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| **Kill green slimes, sea slimes, giant maggots and red scorpions. (green slimes give the best average experience .)
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| **Do the [[Bandit Quest]], start [[Forest Bow Quest]], [[Wooden Shield Quest]]
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| **Start the [[Magic Quests]]
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| **Save up GP, Iron Ores and Coals to get a Light Platemail (+25 DEF) and a Silk Headband (+10) (5,000 GP).
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| **(Save up Raw Logs and GP, get a Forest Bow if you prefer archery).
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| **learn basic focusing [[skills]]
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| *'''LVL 38-50''':
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| **Kill yellow slimes, red slimes, black scorpions, and spiders (Red Slimes give the most money).
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| *'''LVL 45-60''':
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| **Kill flowers, evil mushrooms, snakes, spiders.
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| **Get the Iron Helmets.
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| **Finish up the quests and your collection of rare drops.
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| **Begin to visit swamps and graveyard.
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| *'''LVL 61-90''':
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| **Get the Setzer and best armor possible.
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| **From 75-80 levels, hunt terranites in [[Terranite Cave]] and complete the Heathin's Terranite Armour quest.
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| **From Level 80, it's very tough to level up unless you are mage. If you are mage you can level up faster in Pirate Caves in north of Tulimshar.
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| **From 80-85 levels, hunt in crypt, mainly zombies for [[Love Triangle Quest]].
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| **From 85-90 levels, hunt Terranites and Fallens. You need to collect gem stones for [[The Illia Sisters]] Quest.
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| *'''LVL 90-99''':
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| **From Level 90 hunt [[Red Bone]]s, [[Wight]]s and Pirates.
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| **Hunt in groups. With the right partner you can get double XP.
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| **Do [[The Illia Sisters]] as many times as possible. You get good money, items and XP from Illia.
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| **Do Crypt Bosses quests multiple times. The XP reward of crypt bosses has been increased in recent update.
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| **Beat the Candor challenge multiple times and be [[Milly's Hero]]
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| **Have fun in the Snake Cave, Graveyard, Crypt, [[Terranite Cave]], Yeti caves and the Snow hills. Don't forget to [[stacking|stack]]!
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| More details about the quests are available in [[Quests]] and maps of the current world at [[User:Superkoop/IngameMap]] and [[In-game_world_map]].
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| == Tips == | | == Tips == |
| Try to complete the [[quests]] at the level they are designed for. They provide, money, items and often a lot of experience that will help you to progress whether you are interested in it's achievement or not.
| | {{Note|To be added.}} |
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| It becomes fairly difficult to level up after this point, but it is not entirely uncommon to find players with levels in the 80s, and not impossible to get up to 90 and beyond. It does take a lot of time and work. If you are ambitious about becoming one of the highest level players in the game, be prepared to put in many hours, sometimes many hours at once to reach this goal. Here are a few pointers:
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| ===Setzer===
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| Setzer is one of the most used and the best weapon in the game. Although [[Setzer]] does less damage than [[Rock Knife]] and other weapons it has lower attack delay by which you will have greater dps. To get [[Setzer]], you need to be level 60 and see [[Setzer Quest]] for more details. [[Setzer Quest]] also gives good xp.
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| ===The Scythe===
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| The [[Farmer's Scythe]] was one of the most commonly used weapons in the game, and was for a time considered the best. (This was due to a bug which allowed you to do much more damage with it.) It is now easy to obtain and it helps newbies to evolve in the game more easily (+75 Damage). To get this "deadly" weapon, you'll need to go to [[Hurnscald]]. To get there, visit the dock on the southern side of Candor. You will then need to wait for the ferry to get to Hurnscald. Once you arrive in the center of town (near the [[Soul Menhir]]), head north, go slightly north-east and you will meet an NPC who looks like a farmer. He will give you a quest to bring him 10 Pink Antennae.
| | ===Weapons=== |
| It takes time but with determination it can be done quickly. The alternative solution is to ask someone if they will donate Pink Antennae, its not best to buy them from someone since you will need to save up for equipment.
| | {{Note|To be added.}} |
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| ===Training locations=== | | ===Training locations=== |
| South Tulimshar mine (archers 10+, higher for warriors)
| | {{Note|To be added.}} |
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| West Tulimshar beaches (levels 30-60)
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| The Snake Pit (Hat Maker's Cave) may prove to be more dangerous, especially if the pit has bedded itself in front of the entrance. Players should approach the pit with caution and go in groups when possible. The spawn rate is incredible, and Snakes give 400 EXP a pop.
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| For archers with high dexterity (80+), training might also be beneficial in the Desert Mountains southeast of the Snake Desert. The Mountain Snakes are more defensive and aggressive, but 500 EXP may climb up those levels fast if the player can score steady hits.
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| [[Terranite Cave]] is a nice place to train with it's spiders, undead and [[Terranite|Terranites]] (60+). Watch out for random killers; It is a PvP area!
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| Higher levels can train in the graveyard. Snow Mountains and their caves also provide large areas for training, both for little and wide groups of players. These are really high level places with nice and hard quests.
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| Mages with high vitality and intelligence can train themselves on a Jack O in the graveyard or on top of the mines, north of Hurnscald.
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| Crypt TBA.
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| ===Training technique=== | | ===Training technique=== |
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| Your wrist is going to get worn out in those long training sessions. Try mapping your keyboard so that your attack and target keys are more ergonomic to your hands as you can do this through the client in ''Setup''. I personally use "A" and "Z" on my computer, which greatly helps my own training endurance. | | Your wrist is going to get worn out in those long training sessions. Try mapping your keyboard so that your attack and target keys are more ergonomic to your hands as you can do this through the client in <samp>Setup</samp>. Some players use <kbd>A</kbd> and <kbd>Z</kbd> on their computer, which greatly helps with their ergonomic. |
| | | ManaPlus also provides a key <kbd>Ctrl</kbd> to attack and collect loot as well. |
| Another good trick is healing on demand. Stock up on your healing item of choice (I prefer Beer... I collect Apples ;p) and make the Inventory window small enough that it doesn't block much of your area of vision. Now keep that item selected, and you can simply click ''Use'' whenever you need a quick heal. This is even better if you have a recent client with the item shortcut bar. I toggle the healing item to use and just heal with one keystroke when needed. Keep in mind that we now heal over time.
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| ==The Economy==
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| See the [[Economy]] page.
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| ==Endgame==
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| Once you have gained enough levels and money that the eternal grind begins to bore you, you have multiple options for spending your time:
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| * Finish all the [[Quests]].
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| * Practice [[Magic]] and finish all the [[Magic Quests]] if you haven't already.
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| * Become an obsessive collector. [[Outfit Wars]] may help you in finding the competitive gatherer within you.
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| * Beat the Challenge of [[Candor Battle]]. Multiple times.
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| And, of course, you can become a developer: see below.
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| ==Final thoughts==
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| So you have completed your item collection and levelled as much as you care to. You've finished all of the quests. What else can you do? Well, one of the great things about The Mana World and Open Source software in general is that anyone can help improve it and further it along. There are many ways you can do that even without any "programming" knowledge.
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| The more active players the game has, the more potential programmers will be introduced to the game. And the more potential programmers we have, the faster the development will go. That means new features, items, quests, etc. for everyone. How can you help nurture a large active player base?
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| Well, as you may have noticed before you read this guide, the game has somewhat of a difficult learning curve for new players. Many more experienced players help newbies with quests and items - some even go so far as to create an account devoted solely to that purpose.
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| How do experienced players pass the time while we wait for new content? Simply put, we make our own quests and events, stimulating competition among players and giving out prizes as incentive. This is a great way that we keep other players from getting bored and quitting, and anyone can get involved with it.
| | Another good trick is healing on demand. Stock up on your healing item of choice (such things as Beer, Milk, Apples, or other edibles) and make the <samp>Inventory</samp> small enough that it doesn't block much of your area of vision. Now keep that item selected, and you can simply click <samp>Use</samp> whenever you need a quick heal. |
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| Most importantly, if you have the time and a little bit of know how, you can influence the development of the game directly by helping to code TMWServ, scripting new items, making pixel art for new tilesets, NPCs, monsters, etc, as well as mapping. Mapping especially is very simple and done in a freely available editor called Tiled, which you can read more about on the [[Map development]] page.
| | Ideally, you should use the <samp>Shortcut Bar</samp> <kbd>F8</kbd> instead, this will allow you to assign a few items, skills, and even text to be said with a simple keypress. |
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| Doing all these things is easier when you are not working alone; indeed, bigger projects can be tackled much faster in groups. Although there is no integrated guild system in the client yet, players have started their own "unofficial" guilds (see [[Player Groups]]). They all serve different purposes, but at least one devotes itself to the purpose of furthering the development of the game through the three methods above. Consider joining a guild like this to be a part of a player community that seeks to better the game. You won't be losing your individuality (usually!) in doing so.
| | Remember that healing happens over time: Drinking healing items at the last moment may be too late! By default, healing item effects should '''not''' stack. |
This article contains information for players or people interested in playing The Mana World rEvolt.
If you're interested for the Classic game, please go to the Classic portal.
This article is for reference purpose
The features described in this article are already implemented in the game. The article should describe how a certain aspect of the game currently works. You may of course edit this article to improve the description of the circumstances. Your opinions or improvement suggestions about the described aspects themself are of course appreciated, too. But please put these on the discussion page of this article to keep facts and fiction separated.
Important Information
This page is for the new server. If you are looking for information regarding the walkthrough legacy server please visit
Classic:Walkthrough
Prerequisite
To start playing you need to create a game account. You will also need to install ManaPlus, the official game client.
Rules and etiquette
In addition to the Game Rules and the Social Convention, we would advise the following etiquette:
- Do not drop-steal without permission (drop-steal: take items dropped by a monster someone else killed).
- Do not kill-steal without permission (kill-steal: kill a monster someone else is fighting to get easy exp).
- Be polite, take the time to greet people before you ask anything, follow the same etiquette in conversation as you would follow in real life.
- Do not do things to others as you would not like to be done to yourself.
Default controls
Main article: ManaPlus Client
These are the default controls for the ManaPlus Client. Not all controls/shortcuts are listed here, please see the main article for more controls.
Key |
Action
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Arrow Keys |
Move around
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Ctrl or A + X |
Attack
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S or Alt + S |
Sit down / Stand up
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A |
Target nearest monster
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G or Z |
Pick up item
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N |
Target NPC
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T |
Talk with targeted NPC
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Enter |
Focus Chat window / Send message
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Alt + 0 - Alt + 9, Alt + - or Alt + = |
Show smiley
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First steps
When you first run ManaPlus, it will do some tests to auto-detect the best video settings. When this is done, you will be presented with a login screen. To log in to the game:
- Select The Mana World test server and click Connect.
- Type in your user name and password (case sensitive). Click Login or push Enter or Return on your keyboard.
- If you don't have an account, click Register instead and fill out the form.
- If you wish to read any update news, change Update from Auto Close to Normal.
- ManaPlus will check for and download updated game content. When it's finished, if you had set Update to Normal, click Play.
- You may now select a character and click Play. To create a character:
- Click an empty space.
- Click Create.
- Give the character a name.
- Use the arrows to customize the hair color, hair style and race.
- Congratulations! You are now in the game!
The storyline starts with you on a raft, adrift in the sea. It will be told by the Narrator. To continue with the story click on Next until the Narrator is done. At some point the game asks what language you speak. You can choose between English, French, Russian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Flamish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Catalan or Esperanto. It is possible to switch between languages later. After chosing you can click Submit to submit your answer. The story will continue into a tutorial, helping you with the first steps of the game. For a complete walkthrough through the game see the Walkthrough page.
This page will give you some gameplay hints and tips.
Raising your Stats
When you gain a level in The Mana World, you are awarded points that you can distribute as you please between the various Stats.
Classes
The Mana World doesn't have any set classes, instead skill points can be distributed as you like to make up the character you want. The basic "builds" are Warrior, Archer and Mage. They are based on their level, statistics, skills and equipment. Beginner characters until around level 10 are a basic warrior class, which is the simplest build, allowing you to get familiar with the game.
- Warrior uses melee weapon or sword to fight. For more details visit Warrior.
- Mage uses magic to fight and heal. For more details visit Mage.
Magic
See the article named Magic.
Tips
Note: To be added.
Weapons
Note: To be added.
Training locations
Note: To be added.
Training technique
Your wrist is going to get worn out in those long training sessions. Try mapping your keyboard so that your attack and target keys are more ergonomic to your hands as you can do this through the client in Setup. Some players use A and Z on their computer, which greatly helps with their ergonomic.
ManaPlus also provides a key Ctrl to attack and collect loot as well.
Another good trick is healing on demand. Stock up on your healing item of choice (such things as Beer, Milk, Apples, or other edibles) and make the Inventory small enough that it doesn't block much of your area of vision. Now keep that item selected, and you can simply click Use whenever you need a quick heal.
Ideally, you should use the Shortcut Bar F8 instead, this will allow you to assign a few items, skills, and even text to be said with a simple keypress.
Remember that healing happens over time: Drinking healing items at the last moment may be too late! By default, healing item effects should not stack.